[rdeyes]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050626/ap_ ... e_uprooted

russia will never get this region under control ..IMO

[Short Hand]

LoL, The Russian's run a military state in many Chechen city's. They perform "purgings" and such of local street blocks, they arrest everyone in that block, interogate them and etc. Ya both sides are commiting some pretty violent acts.. But this is a lost cause for Russia.

[Trunks]

What many people dont understand is that this land has always been a part of russia, this wasnt a part of the soviet union mind you, it was always a part of russia, and now, all of a sudden, they want to be seperate. Would any other country let a piece of it, no matter how small just break away? That would be a sign of weakness. One piece breaks away, then another peice, and pretty soon, all thats left of russia is the land around msocow. Not trying to justify either side, but i doubt these so called purgings are any different from US troops in Iraq rounding up suspected militants, and interrogating them...

[Short Hand]

Originally Posted by Trunks

What many people dont understand is that this land has always been a part of russia, this wasnt a part of the soviet union mind you, it was always a part of russia, and now, all of a sudden, they want to be seperate. Would any other country let a piece of it, no matter how small just break away? That would be a sign of weakness. One piece breaks away, then another peice, and pretty soon, all thats left of russia is the land around msocow. Not trying to justify either side, but i doubt these so called purgings are any different from US troops in Iraq rounding up suspected militants, and interrogating them...

We were ready to let Quebec leave peacefully. rolleyes:

-Trust me their purgings are "much" different.

[rdeyes]

Originally Posted by Trunks

What many people dont understand is that this land has always been a part of russia, this wasnt a part of the soviet union mind you, it was always a part of russia, and now, all of a sudden, they want to be seperate. Would any other country let a piece of it, no matter how small just break away? That would be a sign of weakness. One piece breaks away, then another peice, and pretty soon, all thats left of russia is the land around msocow. Not trying to justify either side, but i doubt these so called purgings are any different from US troops in Iraq rounding up suspected militants, and interrogating them...

im WW2 stalin deported and killed alot of chechens for helping the nazi's .. chechnya has always wanted to be free from russia . the first russian -chechen war russia got its ass handed to it , then they withdrew and it became a kidnapping haven and terrorist training ground , thats why russia went back in there .. its a no win situation

American troops in Iraq act alot more civil than the russian troops do in chechnya, it was nice to see short point out that.

[KTOG]

I'd give it up IMO

[Trunks]

Originally Posted by rdeyes

im WW2 stalin deported and killed alot of chechens for helping the nazi's .. chechnya has always wanted to be free from russia . the first russian -chechen war russia got its ass handed to it , then they withdrew and it became a kidnapping haven and terrorist training ground , thats why russia went back in there .. its a no win situation

American troops in Iraq act alot more civil than the russian troops do in chechnya, it was nice to see short point out that.

Stalin killed anybody who he suspected was plotting against him. The major reason why russian casualties were so high in ww2 was because stalin killed off 90% of the officers of the red army only a couple years before russia was surprise attacked. Anyway, russia's situation in chechen can be likened to the American situation in vietnam. And yes, it was very hard to win a solid victory, since a lot of the forces used guerilla type tactics to combat the russian forces. Because russians were suffering casualties, and many civilians were being killed, chechen and russia organized a peace treaty to end the first russian chechen war. Not being rascist, but chechen always was a shady area, lots of crime, drugs and arms smuggling, etc. The reason for the second chechen war is the "Dagestan Campaign" during which russia suffered from many terrorist attacks. At least 300 people died. So russians did what anybody else would do, strike back.

[Short Hand]

LoL look how well that worked out for Russia.. Last I checked a few gunmen took over a school and killed a bunch of kids, Decapitated a Russian Soldier on video.... Not to mention Russian actions in Chechnya are more then "terroriist" type actions themselves. (Just ot warn you, most of the people cought in city purgings are "NEVER" seen again. There was a fantastic documentary on CBC not to long ago about it. NO I don't have the solution to Russia's problem, BUT I do know that war was not the right one either. sleeping:

[Trunks]

oh i suppose its not to hard for me to imagine what the purgings are really like. Like i said, the russian situation in Chechen is a lot like vietnam, the russians dont really want to be there, and teh chechens want them out. The chechens blow up some innocent civilians, the russians are infuriated, they torture/kill some chechen POW's, and pretty soon, both sides are commiting terrible atrocities. Also, I would like to point out, that if its ok for America to lash out and declare war on terror(after they were attacked), then why is it not ok for russia to do the same thing? The only difference is that russians are not delcaring war abroad, they are concentrating pretty exclusively, to my knowledge, on the chechen rebel. So what if they had resumed diplomacy? Terror attacks would have continued till chechen became its own independent country, and russians are not willing to allow that to happen. So should russia have done nothing in retaliation for the Dagestan Campaign? Would doing nothing solve anything? Or would it cost more innocent lives? I know that war is never the right answer to anything, but we are all human after all. Our views conflict, so the views of the nations we live in conflict. And finally, it reaches the point where we fight, because our views conflict. That is how it has always been, and I doubt that will ever change.

[Jimbo@]

Originally Posted by Trunks

What many people dont understand is that this land has always been a part of russia, this wasnt a part of the soviet union mind you, it was always a part of russia, and now, all of a sudden, they want to be seperate. Would any other country let a piece of it, no matter how small just break away? That would be a sign of weakness. One piece breaks away, then another peice, and pretty soon, all thats left of russia is the land around msocow. Not trying to justify either side, but i doubt these so called purgings are any different from US troops in Iraq rounding up suspected militants, and interrogating them...

You're wrong. Chechnya was never always part of russia.

[quote:70d2d]The first Russian invasion of Chechnya occurred during the time of Peter the Great, in the early eighteenth century. After a long series of fierce battles and bloody massacres, Chechnya was incorporated into Russia in the 1870s. In 1936 Soviet leader Joseph Stalin created the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Republic. In 1943, when Nazi forces reached the gates of the Chechen capital, Grozny, Chechen separatists staged a rebellion against Russian rule. In response, the next year Stalin deported more than 1 million Chechens, Ingush, and other North Caucasian peoples to Siberia and Central Asia on the pretext that they had collaborated with the Nazis. The remaining Muslim people of the Chechnya region were resettled among neighboring Christian communities. Stalin's brutal policy virtually erased Chechnya from the map, but Soviet first secretary Nikita Khrushchev permitted the Chechen and Ingush peoples to return to their homeland and restored their republic in 1957.[/quote:70d2d]


[quote:70d2d]The only autonomous jurisdictions that refused to sign the 1992 Federation Treaty were Chechnya and Tatarstan, both of which are rich in oil. [/quote:70d2d]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chec ... n_Chechnya


Furthermore the Russian soldiers treat ther Chechens like shit. No wonder resistance is so high.[/quote]

[Jin-Roh]

I will go to Chechnya, and resolve the problem with a Call of Duty LAN Party.

[Trunks]

Jimbo, I may have exagerrated when I said it was ALWAYS part of Russia, no land was ever, always a part of another country, and most countries expand, as russia did through millitary conquest.

However, the fact remains, that if a piece of America, which also expanded, or any other country(almost all countries have expanded at one point), were to declare itself independent there would be serious consequences.

And Chechen was part of Russia for about 135 years. And russians treat chechens like shit, because chechens treat russians like shit.