[geRV]

Id like to see a more "non sniper" friendly version of omaha if thats possible. Snipers really dominated most of that map, team mates sat on the beach sniping more concerned with their frag count than actually helping the team complete the objective. oOo:

[Tiwaz]

I voted city/village (I like rifle), but like in-doors as well (whoring around with the smg can be serious fun on occasion, evil: ). A map with some of both would be nice.

First:

- My favourite map is Crossroads. That is because everybody can use his or her favourite weapon there (except for rockets/shotguns, which should be disabled). It offers enough cover to locate and kill (camping) snipers; but sniping is still possible. It is suited for instant rambo-action as well as teamwork. It is both in-doors as well as city/village.

- Destroyed Village is not such a good example of a city/village, It favours snipers too much in my opinion.

- I also like the instant-action maps like Stalingrad/Southern France/V2 (although V2 is not such a good example of an instant-action map, since it's OBJ).

About maps:

TDM: I think the main trick is to design a map that is balanced. What do I mean with balanced? The more balance there is in a map, the less 'clashes' between teams/groups of players occur at the same location. Consider for example Unterseite/Bazaar (SH). It is very difficult to get around the 'clash-point'. The fighting is highly concentrated on one location; I think anyone who has played on these maps knows what I mean, leaving aside the question whether you like that, or not. For me, the lack of balance in the maps is one of the main reasons I don't like SH.

Good examples of balanced maps are almost all original MoHAA (TDM) maps, whereas most Spearhead maps are not (Unterseite/Bazaar/Brest/Verschneit). Stadt and Gewitter are quite nice.

OBJ: V2 rocks, there should've been more maps like V2 in MoHAA. It has action and balance in it. Dyed-In-The-Wool snipers might not like it though (?). The hunt and The Bridge are fine. Omaha is...almost TDM.

In general: Maps that favour camping too much suck (stating the obvious). I am aware of the fact that some people might say Crossroads favours camping (snipers). Yes, it does to some extent. But not that much; it is not that difficult to hunt them down. Maps with crates/trees/barrels/rocks/vehicles/stairways and what not all over the place do favour camping.


A lot of comments coming from someone who has never developed his own map, I realize that, but I don't have the time (nor the skill, at the moment) to make my own map. Otherwise I would.

I think it will not be easy to satisfy a large group of players, but maybe that isn't your objective. I also think that developing a map that yields nice gameplay will take a lot of time and improvements over time. Good luck with that!

[Ydiss]

[quote="Jedi Marksman":dc501]I and many other snopers in the game have been dying for a Hedgerows map, with the stands in the trees and such. That would be awesome.

As far as urban, a larger more extensive Stalingrad map would be great.[/quote:dc501]

This would come under outdoors fields forest etc. I actually had an objective map planned along the lines you refer to, a central forest surrounded by farmland and fields, all segregated by hedgerows and sparse copses of trees.

Located around this would be 2 or three collections of buildings and a derelict train station and track along the southern edge.

The fog would be marginal to ensure snipers have a good time but the land would be arranged in such a way that they would not be able to dominate, except in particular areas.

If the outdoors option gets the most votes this will be my blueprint.

As for a larger Stalingrad... This would be really easy to make, would probably take me 2-3 weeks or so.

Keep the ideas coming. Once I got the style of map sorted I'll then do a poll asking for the texture theme.

[Tiwaz]

Originally Posted by Ydiss

1) No dead ends
2) Connectivity (Each area has more than one entry point)
3) Functionality (No areas that are redundant and rarely used - one reason I deleted the loading bay from TDM in xfire)

The way I see it is if you stick to those 4 rules and make the map look decent then the players will add the teamwork aspect themselves, whether you want it or not.

That's what I meant with the word 'balance'.

Originally Posted by Ydiss

Do you like the inclusion of health bottles, providing they are used sparingly and placed in relavent places?

The only relevant locations may be at two far ends of the map, to avoid creating a focal point? Personally, I don't think they will improve gameplay/teamwork.

[Ydiss]

Originally Posted by Gerard

Id like to see a more "non sniper" friendly version of omaha if thats possible. Snipers really dominated most of that map, team mates sat on the beach sniping more concerned with their frag count than actually helping the team complete the objective. oOo:

How I would love to make one of those. I could make a much more balanced Omaha (easy, remove the single choke point in the bunker and reduce the bomb target to one instead of two - Axis rarely defend the objective until the Allies take out one target, then they just sit back and soak it up - too easy).

But to reduce sniper effectiveness would be really hard. Only viable way would be to make the beach and MG42 bunkers out of visual range of eachother (either by fog or distance).

If you do that you will automatically remove the realism of the map as the boats were clearly visible to the MG42s on that day.

I'd gladly create a storming the beach map that was not historically correct and I'd be able to make it balanced but I couldn't recreate Omaha to make snipers ineffective without butchering the original concept.

The thing is, on D-Day, not everyone was armed with a sniper rifle.

[geRV]

Originally Posted by Ydiss

How I would love to make one of those. I could make a much more balanced Omaha (easy, remove the single choke point in the bunker and reduce the bomb target to one instead of two - Axis rarely defend the objective until the Allies take out one target, then they just sit back and soak it up - too easy).

But to reduce sniper effectiveness would be really hard. Only viable way would be to make the beach and MG42 bunkers out of visual range of eachother (either by fog or distance).

If you do that you will automatically remove the realism of the map as the boats were clearly visible to the MG42s on that day.

I'd gladly create a storming the beach map that was not historically correct and I'd be able to make it balanced but I couldn't recreate Omaha to make snipers ineffective without butchering the original concept.

The thing is, on D-Day, not everyone was armed with a sniper rifle.

I would love to see some kind of variable in moh which dictated how many of a given weapon there can be on certain maps, i think its safe to say when everyones sniping on some maps it can get really tedious. I normally only snipe (even though im not that good at it oOo: ) but i will charge around with an m1 or whatever if i feel like it. Weapons restrictions would help a lot in this game but i dont think theres anyway to do it.

[Jedi Marksman]

Ydiss, I was also thinking. . .how about a map along the lines of the fictional town of Ramelle in SPR, with the bridge and the clock tower. Sort of like the town in AA where you have to snipe the soldiers to keep them from reaching the detonator to blow up the bridge.

[Ydiss]

Originally Posted by Tiwaz

- My favourite map is Crossroads. That is because everybody can use his or her favourite weapon there (except for rockets/shotguns, which should be disabled). It offers enough cover to locate and kill (camping) snipers; but sniping is still possible. It is suited for instant rambo-action as well as teamwork. It is both in-doors as well as city/village.

I agree, this is my favourite map now my PC can run it smoothly. I'd disagree with anyone who thinks this map is suited to campers.

[quote:d165a]- Destroyed Village is not such a good example of a city/village, It favours snipers too much in my opinion.[/quote:d165a] No sniper has ever beaten me on this map unless they were an exceptional one. And I do mean exceptional. It's not suited to snipers at all, in my opinion. Rifles and SMGS own this map. Only time this is not the case is when there are too many snipers, in which case it can be difficult to navigate, but still I love this map.

[quote:d165a]TDM: I think the main trick is to design a map that is balanced. What do I mean with balanced? The more balance there is in a map, the less 'clashes' between teams/groups of players occur at the same location. Consider for example Unterseite/Bazaar (SH). It is very difficult to get around the 'clash-point'. The fighting is highly concentrated on one location; I think anyone who has played on these maps knows what I mean, leaving aside the question whether you like that, or not. For me, the lack of balance in the maps is one of the main reasons I don't like SH.[/quote:d165a] Again I agree. I always make maps based on avoiding this. Choke points ruin a map, in my opinion. There should always be another way around that is balanced. That is, if it's a better cover route then it should be longer than the other way which offers less cover but is a more direct way.

[quote:d165a]A lot of comments coming from someone who has never developed his own map, I realize that, but I don't have the time (nor the skill, at the moment) to make my own map. Otherwise I would.[/quote:d165a] You play the game so are very qualified to add suggestions.

[quote:d165a]I think it will not be easy to satisfy a large group of players, but maybe that isn't your objective. [/quote:d165a]

Actually, it is, hehe. A map needs aspects that appeal to as many differing styles of play as possible, without being too cluttered or too sparse.

If you haven't already, try DLing my map Crossfire Courtyard - Sabotage (it's 4 maps in one pk3, each a variation of the same map). That will show you how I approach map-making.

Whatever I make now will be different from that in style and theme but not in principal.

[Bazooka_Joe]

Other - You owe me 1 Glass House Map!!! biggrin:

[Ydiss]

[quote="Jedi Marksman":03f3e]Ydiss, I was also thinking. . .how about a map along the lines of the fictional town of Ramelle in SPR, with the bridge and the clock tower. Sort of like the town in AA where you have to snipe the soldiers to keep them from reaching the detonator to blow up the bridge.[/quote:03f3e]

This has been done really in The Bridge, although not quite the same. Also, SH has this very map already converted to MP (Brest), minus the bridge, of course.

I do want to cater more for snipers this time (xfire is not a sniper map at all and I wanted that) but I don't want to make it too much of a sniper map, if possible.

I may design a map based on that fictional town, but just without the bridge, though. Whatever I do it will be a virtical map, so it will make full use of all 3 dimensions (so, you have to look up and down and not just left and right).

Hell, if anyone can post pictures of ideas that'd be really cool. I would have no problem with basing a map on an historical site, if I have enough research on it.

You might all be surprised to know that xfire originated from a Half-Life DM map! The central courtyard's structure and pathing is based exactly on a map called Scary_2, although the rest of the map is definitely mine.

[Ydiss]

[quote="Bazooka_Joe":517a9]Other - You owe me 1 Glass House Map!!! biggrin:[/quote:517a9]

If I can add a greenhouse in there, I will. I'll even make it possible to break each and every pane individually. biggrin:

[Zoner]

I'm definitely more partial to indoor maps since my FPS doesn't get slaughtered.



Zone

[Ydiss]

What system do you have, Zoner (don't be embarrased, I had a duron 700 until just recently). I only ask because, if I do start this map, I'd like to have someone with lower specs playtest it along the way to tell me where FPS goes up so I can make this map cater for all players.

[Tiwaz]

About Destroyed Village:

Originally Posted by Ydiss

No sniper has ever beaten me on this map unless they were an exceptional one. And I do mean exceptional. It's not suited to snipers at all, in my opinion. Rifles and SMGS own this map. Only time this is not the case is when there are too many snipers, in which case it can be difficult to navigate, but still I love this map.

No one sniper has beaten me either. But more than one, as you said, can make it pretty annoying. That's why I dislike it most of the time.

Originally Posted by Ydiss

If you haven't already, try DLing my map Crossfire Courtyard - Sabotage (it's 4 maps in one pk3, each a variation of the same map). That will show you how I approach map-making.

Will do.


As far as textures go, maps with bright colours (Southern France, Remagen) are nice. Green is nice (as in trees/bushes). What I also like about Crossroads is the windows. May sound strange, but I really like the sound of breaking windows while playing. Adds...ambience is the word that comes close to what I mean. But I guess these are details of future concern.

[Ydiss]

Originally Posted by Tiwaz

May sound strange, but I really like the sound of breaking windows while playing. Adds...ambience is the word that comes close to what I mean. But I guess these are details of future concern.

lol, then you'll love my map then.

40-odd windows, each with 4 panes, each pane individually modelled and scripted to break, each one with a slightly different texture to the last.

It took me weeks just to do the windows for xfire.

I wonder who holds the record for "Shortest time to blow all windows out" on my map? biggrin: