[CoMaToSe]

So what, precisely, is your point? WHAT are you trying to prove? WHats the end all be all of your arguement?

[Vance]

Frankly I'd like to see something else besides ninty citiing 95% of his sources from obvious anti-Bush/American websites. rolleyes:

[Stammer]

Originally Posted by Vance

Frankly I'd like to see something else besides ninty citiing 95% of his sources from obvious anti-Bush/American websites. rolleyes:

I'd like to see some people counter the links he provides rather then just brush them off...

[Vance]

What's the point?

[Stammer]

Originally Posted by Vance

What's the point?

Satisfaction, and contributing to a meaningful debate without using "Oh it's from that website no point to rebut it.", Using that as a defense proves that you forfeit your right to argue.

[Short Hand]

Originally Posted by Stammer

Satisfaction, and contributing to a meaningful debate without using "Oh it's from that website no point to rebut it.", Using that as a defense proves that you forfeit your right to argue.

I have given up on politics for the most part....(around here)

[TGB!]

[quote\I'd like to see some people counter the links he provides rather then just brush them off...[/quote]

Already done - so far he has focused on a single counter. I doubt hell answer any others. Move along -

[rdeyes]

Originally Posted by 1080jibber

With the US being so dependent on oil, it makes since to go to war with a country that has a lot of oil. Just look at this hurrican stuff going on, gas prices jumped big time because of it, imagine if only the Saudi and Iraqi were the only source left. they could bring down the US like nothing.

we live in such a crazy world today, i dont know what to belive

theres a shitload of oil in anwr and there more natural gas than oil , it takes time to pull the shit out the ground, most of the oil from alaska goes to asia, which i think is utter bullshit and needs to be changed , why pay for oil from the middle east when you have an abundant supply in the biggest state in the union? they passed the bill to start drilling in anwr after clinton and his croonies wanted to help protect the caribou and other wildlife which is also bullshit, the oil industry has been getting oil from the arctic coast since the early 70's and the wildlife is going ok, it isnt like they have rusted barrels leaking oil everywhere.

[Short Hand]

Originally Posted by rdeyes

theres a shitload of oil in anwr and there more natural gas than oil , it takes time to pull the shit out the ground, most of the oil from alaska goes to asia, which i think is utter bullshit and needs to be changed , why pay for oil from the middle east when you have an abundant supply in the biggest state in the union? they passed the bill to start drilling in anwr after clinton and his croonies wanted to help protect the caribou and other wildlife which is also bullshit, the oil industry has been getting oil from the arctic coast since the early 70's and the wildlife is going ok, it isnt like they have rusted barrels leaking oil everywhere.

Alaska does not have that much oil....... ****Not to mention it is more profitable to ship it overseas, charge an asian consumer 4x the amount and getaway with it. rolleyes:

[ninty]

Fine TGB, I'll bite.

[quote="TGB!":9b154]
Lord - the oft-repeated PDB mantra. Theres NOTHING in the PDB that suggests any IMMINENT attack is going to occur or a specific one for that matter. What it DOES read as is a primer of BIN LADEN and his past operations against the United States. You can easily good PDB and read it for yourself (you being anyone who believes the PDB was some sort of SMOKING GUN for 9/11) – [/quote:9b154]

I don’t know why this is such a big deal. The bottom line is there are documents out there that were produced before 9/11 that say terrorist attacks will happen. There are also a number of intelligence agencies who told the US that terrorists were planning something as well as a number of people coming forward. There was advanced warning, yet the government failed to act.

[quote:9b154]
"Mostly contained" being Liberal SPeak for "sure he's abusing the OFF program, effectively murdering millions of his people and using the funds to restart his weapons program" – [/quote:9b154]

Source?

[quote:9b154]The PNAC references - straw men arguments meant to distract from the main issue. Noone kvetches about the NUMEROUS liberal think tanks who offer policy to Democratic leaders - not a SINGLE word is said. [/quote:9b154]

The dems aren’t in power for one, and second of all, I don’t think I’ve seen any reports from liberal think tanks that explain the need for a new pearl harbour to get the American people behind the expansion of the American empire.

[quote:9b154]
Please. The Downing Street Memo at BEST can be described as one BRIT's assessment of his meeting with foreign reps. Had it been a DOMESTIC REPRESENTATIVE - then by all means open up the flood-gates, let loose them Dogs Of War. The DSM is damaging in and of the simple fact that it does present a trigger happy admin, but the charges of FIXING intel - prove it. This memo could have come from IRAN and the left would have hailed it as the second coming.[/quote:9b154]

There have been Seven downing street memos now. Read about them here:
[url="http://www.dissidentvoice.org/June05/Zeese0615.htm"]http://www.dissidentvoice.org/June05/Zeese0615.htm[/url]

We also have to remember these are minutes of the meeting. Not an interpretation of the meeting.

[quote:9b154]
I love the oft-repeated - "Saddam had no AQ link" - which is like excusing a Drug Dealer because instead of selling the cocaine that you THOUGHT he was selling - he was instead selling heroin. "Oh AQ - no no never dealth with THOSE guys (please god dont let them ask me about the other terrorist activities I've sponsored").[/quote:9b154]
I don’t buy that. There are lots of dictators out there. Is the Us going to install western governments in all of them? The US was supposed to be going after OBL because he blew up the WTC. Saddam didn’t help or contribute to 9/11. Thus I don’t see justification for invading his country on the pretext of the war on terrorism. Fox news repeats 9/11 and Saddam enough, and people believe it.

[quote:9b154]
Lord knows the oil is flowing out of IRAQ now.
[/quote:9b154]
Maybe not, but the potential is there. Now the us has military bases in Afghanistan and Iraq, along with other allied nations in the area. The US has control over the region.

[quote:9b154]Bush may have sacrificed thousands of American dead, tens of thousands of American wounded, and more than 100,000 Iraqis as "collateral damage"[/quote:9b154]

[quote:9b154]Furhter proof that this article is taking its info from the same oft-repeated lies, liberal prop. - the author of the report that first claimed the 100K mark - has pretty much had that report (and his impartiality) blown out of the water. The survery ADMITEDLY only sampled a SMALL number of households in regards to how many dead they have "lost" - and the report itself says at MAX 100K - so basically youve got a report using a questionable report to create another questionable report. Good on ya.[/quote:9b154]
Perhaps, but perhaps not. We’ll never know the actual deaths. And even if they did, would the US actually release those numbers or even release accurate numbers? Doubt it.

[quote:9b154]
In comparison to what war - the First Gulf War? - Sure any war looks like a disaster compared to that. Hell the CIVIL WAR was a disaster than and should never have been fought.[/quote:9b154] If you don’t think this war was a disaster, that’s your prerogative.

[quote:9b154]We know that Bush's Middle East agenda also is suffering because the U.S. military is spread way thin in Afghanistan and Iraq, the desertion rates are high, soldiers are not re-upping at the usual clip, recruitment isn't working and illegal scams are being used to lure youngsters into signing up[/quote:9b154]

[quote:9b154]GTFO - scams? Link - no I didnt think so. Military recruitment isnt BRISK - but its not in dire straights either. Some recruitment goals wont be met - but it wont affect the MILITARY's ability to conduct the IRAQ reconstruction either.[/quote:9b154] I flipped by larry king the other day and some general was talking about Katrina. At the end of his segment he said “If you want to work as a part of a team, I encourage you to call 1-800-go-army or whatever the number is. Found it funny. Illegal was of getting people to join? Perhaps not, although I have heard of recruiters getting kids drug test kits so they could pass and that sort of thing.



[quote:9b154]
Shocking - a TON of rhetoric. . .and not a SINGLE example of this "shredding of the Bill Of Rights".[/quote:9b154]

I would argue that the powers given to the FBI and other agencies in the wake of 9/11 are a violation of the principles the US was founded upon.

[quote:9b154]

I love this one - since its either willfully being IGNORANT, or it really has no intention of being truthful or honest, and just wants to lie for lyings sake. At this point during the ongoing investigation (you know those troublesome little things that we have to fully determine a persons guilt before bringing charges and yanno - having a trial - all that silly stuff about innocent until proven guilty) KARL ROVE is NOT a suspect, or being investigated as the Special Prosecutor has said - so either Liberals know something that FITZ doesnt - or they are once again pouncing where they dont need to be pouncing. ROVE had conversations with two reporters regarding PLAME - none of which were initiated by the WHITE HOUSE or ROVE's staff. ROVE - in his attempts to JUSTIFIABLE protect the office of the President - cautioned COOPER against pursuing WILSON's story, as his credibility and non-partisanship might be in question - specifically in regards to who helped get WILSON assigned to the very plum role of following up on the NIGER claim. If ROVE should be terminated and charged for that - by all means - but Liberals need to cup their own balls and accept the responsibility for initiating such a precedent.[/quote:9b154]

[quote:9b154]
You those exit polls which were Republican voters REFUSED to participate in the polling - those exit polls which were called the most INACCURATE in YEARS. . .THOSE poll numbers?

More irony. The revered "exit polls" - by the authors own ADMISSION - overstated the results of John Kerry in 26 STATES! Uh huh - physician heal thyself.
[/quote:9b154]
So perhaps the electronic voting should be put away and go back to a paper system where you can actually track votes.


[quote:9b154]Other than cutting it in half. Yea - dumb plan. Stupid stupid plan. Damn 5% Unemployment rate. POS economy. like the depression all over again.[/quote:9b154]
Debt really isn’t something I can comment on because I don’t know as much as I would like at the current time.

[quote:9b154]
HEAD START is broken. It has ZERO accountability and it is under the Department of Health and Human services - which means that NONE of those who are caring for or attending to the nations most at-risk children have any need for advanced schooling that we require of teachers in public schools. That asshole BUSH has actually suggested that TEACHERS have MINIMUM their AA's - and eventually their BACHELORS. God damn shifty eyed crook.[/quote:9b154]
I don’t know what head start is.

[quote:9b154]
Broken. Admitted that it will run out in 2080 if left apace. BUSH's plan MAY have been faulty - but at least he had the balls to say - "We need to do SOMETHING folks". Yea - dumb BUSH.[/quote:9b154]But is doing something that most people don’t want to have happen a good thing?

[quote:9b154]
This article is trash - and I sincerely hope it was posted only to give some folks something to piss on. If so - thank you kindly NINTY[/quote:9b154]

After reviewing it again, it does have flaws. However I do believe the main points it tried to convey are still relevant.

[rdeyes]

[quote="Short Hand":b0f58][quote=rdeyes][quote=1080jibber]With the US being so dependent on oil, it makes since to go to war with a country that has a lot of oil. Just look at this hurrican stuff going on, gas prices jumped big time because of it, imagine if only the Saudi and Iraqi were the only source left. they could bring down the US like nothing.

we live in such a crazy world today, i dont know what to belive[/quote]

theres a shitload of oil in anwr and there more natural gas than oil , it takes time to pull the shit out the ground, most of the oil from alaska goes to asia, which i think is utter bullshit and needs to be changed , why pay for oil from the middle east when you have an abundant supply in the biggest state in the union? they passed the bill to start drilling in anwr after clinton and his croonies wanted to help protect the caribou and other wildlife which is also bullshit, the oil industry has been getting oil from the arctic coast since the early 70's and the wildlife is going ok, it isnt like they have rusted barrels leaking oil everywhere.[/quote]

Alaska does not have that much oil....... ****Not to mention it is more profitable to ship it overseas, charge an asian consumer 4x the amount and getaway with it. rolleyes:[/quote:b0f58]

[url=http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=devscale5vt.jpg:b0f58][img]http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/327/devscale5vt.th.jpg[/img][/url:b0f58]

im just guessing but from what i have read and what my friends that work in the oilfields have told me that theres billions of barrels of oil in anwar , and when they come up with a more efficent recovery method the amount of barrels goes higher. so your theory about alaska not having that much oil is unfounded. natural gas is the next big thing to come from alaska.

[url="http://www.dog.dnr.state.ak.us/oil/"]http://www.dog.dnr.state.ak.us/oil/[/url]

they havent even started going after all the natural gas that alaska has.

[Short Hand]

Natural gas is always right above oil... in the old days they used to just burn it off......(they had no use for it) A lot of that oil is in refuge areas...Not to mention it is not going to be America's savior... rolleyes: a Bandaid @ most.

[Madmartagen]

i dont think oil is hte problem, but our dependency on it and the fact that we get it from another country. but the solution isnt to find a way to get it at a better price. if our country would focus on researching and using alternative energy sources, namely one that we could use for ourselves, we would be better off. this global warming and air pollution is staring in our face and we arent doing enough about it. instead, we make less fuel efficient cars, have larger traffic jams, and keep spitting out suvs and cars faster than we can sell them. if we put our resources and marketing into solar power, we could find a productive and affordable source of energy.