[ninty]

[url=http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1798944,00.html:18ac2]Link[/url:18ac2]

[quote:18ac2]September 27, 2005

The Times

Societies worse off 'when they have God on their side'
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

RELIGIOUS belief can cause damage to a society, contributing towards high murder rates, abortion, sexual promiscuity and suicide, according to research published today.

According to the study, belief in and worship of God are not only unnecessary for a healthy society but may actually contribute to social problems.

The study counters the view of believers that religion is necessary to provide the moral and ethical foundations of a healthy society.

It compares the social peformance of relatively secular countries, such as Britain, with the US, where the majority believes in a creator rather than the theory of evolution. Many conservative evangelicals in the US consider Darwinism to be a social evil, believing that it inspires atheism and amorality.

Many liberal Christians and believers of other faiths hold that religious belief is socially beneficial, believing that it helps to lower rates of violent crime, murder, suicide, sexual promiscuity and abortion. The benefits of religious belief to a society have been described as its “spiritual capital”. But the study claims that the devotion of many in the US may actually contribute to its ills.

The paper, published in the Journal of Religion and Society, a US academic journal, reports: “Many Americans agree that their churchgoing nation is an exceptional, God-blessed, shining city on the hill that stands as an impressive example for an increasingly sceptical world.

“In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy and abortion in the prosperous democracies.

“The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developing democracies, sometimes spectacularly so.”

Gregory Paul, the author of the study and a social scientist, used data from the International Social Survey Programme, Gallup and other research bodies to reach his conclusions.

He compared social indicators such as murder rates, abortion, suicide and teenage pregnancy.

The study concluded that the US was the world’s only prosperous democracy where murder rates were still high, and that the least devout nations were the least dysfunctional. Mr Paul said that rates of gonorrhoea in adolescents in the US were up to 300 times higher than in less devout democratic countries. The US also suffered from “ uniquely high” adolescent and adult syphilis infection rates, and adolescent abortion rates, the study suggested.

Mr Paul said: “The study shows that England, despite the social ills it has, is actually performing a good deal better than the USA in most indicators, even though it is now a much less religious nation than America.”

He said that the disparity was even greater when the US was compared with other countries, including France, Japan and the Scandinavian countries. These nations had been the most successful in reducing murder rates, early mortality, sexually transmitted diseases and abortion, he added.

Mr Paul delayed releasing the study until now because of Hurricane Katrina. He said that the evidence accumulated by a number of different studies suggested that religion might actually contribute to social ills. “I suspect that Europeans are increasingly repelled by the poor societal performance of the Christian states,” he added.

He said that most Western nations would become more religious only if the theory of evolution could be overturned and the existence of God scientifically proven. Likewise, the theory of evolution would not enjoy majority support in the US unless there was a marked decline in religious belief, Mr Paul said.

“The non-religious, proevolution democracies contradict the dictum that a society cannot enjoy good conditions unless most citizens ardently believe in a moral creator.

“The widely held fear that a Godless citizenry must experience societal disaster is therefore refuted.”

[/quote:18ac2]

[TodzumPapst]

So True So True........

[Jin-Roh]

God told me to sodomize.

[Tripper]

Well, sane/logical religious people are a minority IMO - But they do exist. I'd say my family would be a pretty good example of that.

...alot of bad shit is done in the name of god though.

[Coleman]

believing that there is a higher being doesn't make you religious. I don't really see how murder rates and abortion can be correlated to places of faith. I don't see how they can generalize and say, "since there's religion in america and they have high murder rates...then they're positively correlated with a +1 coefficient of correlation". It might be me, but it doesn't really make much sense. Can someone point it out to me?

[TodzumPapst]

Not sure if this is going to help you out or anything , and the whole fact it happened such a long time ago, but the whole Salem Witch Trial might be an example you are looking for. Technically these puritans believed so much in there god and bible that they hung these people off of such beliefs. Not sure if this would help oOo:

[Coleman]

Originally Posted by TodzumPapst

Not sure if this is going to help you out or anything , and the whole fact it happened such a long time ago, but the whole Salem Witch Trial might be an example you are looking for. Technically these puritans believed so much in there god and bible that they hung these people off of such beliefs. Not sure if this would help oOo:

yeah, I can see that. Thanks for the input. But I dont see how our modern society can be applicable to this.

[Trunks]

Originally Posted by Tripper

...alot of bad shit is done in the name of god though.

and thats where the problem lies.

[KTOG]

Slayer - Disciple

Drones since the dawn of time
Compelled to live your sheltered lives
Not once has anyone ever seen
Such a rise of pure hypocracy
I'll instigate I'll free your mind
I'll show you what I've known all this time

God Hates Us All, God Hates Us All
You know it's true God hates this place
You know it's true he hates this race

Homicide-Suicide
Hate heals, you should try it sometime
Strive for Peace with acts of war
The beauty of death we all adore
I have no faith distracting me
I know why your prayers will never be answered

God Hates Us All; God Hates Us All
He Fuckin' hates me

Pessimist, Terrorist targeting the next mark
Global chaos feeding on hysteria
Cut throat, slit your wrist, shoot you in the back fair game
Drug abuse, self abuse searching for the next high
Sounds a lot like hell is spreading all the time
I'm waiting for the day the whole world fucking dies

I never said I wanted to be God's disciple
I'll never be the one to blindly follow

Man made virus infecting the world
Self-destruct human time bomb
What if there is no God would you think the fuckin' same
Wasting your life in a leap of blind faith
Wake the fuck up can't ignore what I say
I got my own philosophy

I hate everyone equally
You can't tear that out of me
No segregation -separation
Just me in my world of enemies

I never said I wanted to be God's disciple
I'll never be the one to blindly follow
I'll never be the one to bear the cross-disciple

I reject this fuckin' race
I despise this fuckin' place

[Judas]

i dont really see anything in that article that supports it. by comparing the us to europe in terms of "social ill" and belief in a god, he has concluded that religon is whats causing our social problems. gtfo.

are the people in the us who are having these problems even religous?

[Madmartagen]

ever wonder what the world would be like w/o christianity, islam and judaism?



better..

[Pyro]

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

ever wonder what the world would be like w/o christianity, islam and judaism?



better..

rock:

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

ever wonder what the world would be like w/o christianity, islam and judaism?



better..

Possibly....there would also potentially be alot more people fearing death more. No afterlife and nothing at all after death can be a scary thought.

I wonder what basic morals would exist....Most of our current "free and democratic" nations were founded under Christian ideals...

[TodzumPapst]

I kinda of think the world would be a better place w/out religion also. But i think if we didnt have it some other belief would replace it because people would be unsecure and they would try to figure out life and all that then we would be back to where we are now, and in my opinion i think thats how religion was brought up anyways,God was created out of peoples insecuritys.

[Stammer]

Originally Posted by Tripper

Possibly....there would also potentially be alot more people fearing death more. No afterlife and nothing at all after death can be a scary thought.

I wonder what basic morals would exist....Most of our current "free and democratic" nations were founded under Christian ideals...

I don't follow. People still fear death, and even if there isn't an after life you wont know, your dead.

Besides most "Christian ideals" and morals arn't Christian to begin with. Keep in mind Christianty didn't coin morals. Murder has been a bad thing for thousands of years, along with rape, theft, etc.

You don't need religion to be a good, righteous person.

IMHO, the Beatitudes are the most important set of principles in Christianity.

[quote:3a8f7]3"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.

6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. [/quote:3a8f7]