[Nyck]

Originally Posted by Tripper

Has anyone ever heard of RAPE around here? It happens alot.....and rapists don't tend to use condoms.

I agree that there are irresponsible people out there that use abortion as a way out, but there are also deathly unfortunate people that use it as well. I know if I were a woman, and I were violently raped - I would want to abort the child. I have 2 friends that have been raped, both were savage attacks by men they never had met before - One of these girls had to have an abortion because she was so terrified an embarrased by what happened she couldn't even leave her house for weeks and so couldn't get the morning after pill...

[quote="Nyck on page 1":04ff4]Now in the case of rape or the like, I fully support abortion.[/quote:04ff4]

[Tripper]

[quote=Nyck]

Originally Posted by Tripper

Has anyone ever heard of RAPE around here? It happens alot.....and rapists don't tend to use condoms.

I agree that there are irresponsible people out there that use abortion as a way out, but there are also deathly unfortunate people that use it as well. I know if I were a woman, and I were violently raped - I would want to abort the child. I have 2 friends that have been raped, both were savage attacks by men they never had met before - One of these girls had to have an abortion because she was so terrified an embarrased by what happened she couldn't even leave her house for weeks and so couldn't get the morning after pill...

Originally Posted by "Nyck on page 1":9a393

Now in the case of rape or the like, I fully support abortion.

[/quote:9a393]

Yeah okay, one person.

I'm kind of wanting to hear from the people who think there shouldn't be such a thing as abortion. People trying to have it outlawed instead of regulated. How would they feel in that situation?

What would they do if their wife/gf was raped and couldn't have an abortion. Would they help raise the kid?

[Madmartagen]

Originally Posted by c312

yes but if you thought that fetuses were lives, then you wouldn't want people to have a choice to kill them or not, because it woul dbe killing a person. Right now, it's not killing a person to you, which leads you to the rest of your conclusion on the issue. It all stems from whether or not you think fetuses are alive or not.

correct. there isnt going to be a 100% satisfaction rate on this issue, but there can be a 50/50 settlement - which is legalized abortion.

[c312]

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

correct. there isnt going to be a 100% satisfaction rate on this issue, but there can be a 50/50 settlement - which is legalized abortion.

but that's obviously not an acceptable (or "50/50") settlement for those of us who think fetuses are alive...

[Madmartagen]

Originally Posted by c312

but that's obviously not an acceptable (or "50/50") settlement for those of us who think fetuses are alive...

of course it is. if you dont want to abort fetuses, you dont have to get an abortion.

[Poseidon]

I personally am against abortions unless they are under certain extreme circumstances (i.e. being raped), I can completely understand why women would want an abortion after being raped, living with the fact you would eventually have to tell your kid who your dad was, knowing the dad is a filthy twat etc. However if I made my gf pregnant, and she wanted an abortion I personally would try my hardest to keep it, even though I personally think i'm too young to have a kid at this stage, I would still attempt to persuade her to keep it. Because of my views on abortion. I would ensure I was a perfect dad anyway, and ensure I would support my gf and son/daughter, to the best of my ability.

Originally Posted by Coleman

I just don't understand how you can say, "she is going to let IT RUIN her life or have IT aborted and move on." I believe a child is something very sacred to me in my eyes, whether it was intended to be born or not. It isn't something that is as simple as making a decision to get your value meal Supersized or not. Eveything has a plan in life (another thing you probably disagree with me on that really doesn't have any gray area).

pretty much summed it up

[c312]

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

of course it is. if you dont want to abort fetuses, you dont have to get an abortion.

yeah, you're not understanding a critical part of the issue here. People who think fetuses are alive do not want to stand idle while they are killed. Because they beleive they are lives, killing them is murder, therefore, they don't want people to get them, because they don't want anyone to murder. Saying that people who don't want them shouldn't get them is like telling people not to be serial killers if they don't want to be, but allow people who do want to be to do it. Understand?

[Madmartagen]

yes i understand, but considering that a significant minority/majority of people think that it is an option that should be available, i feel like that should be taken into consideration as well. i want to clarify what i said - imo there is a difference between a fetus, a fertilized egg and a baby that is a month away from being born. There are differences, and i agree that a fetus is a human being a month before it is born because it is practically ready to come out. i just think that a mothers choice takes priority over the babys life. as fucked up as it sounds, a mother who would wait for the last minute to have an abortion is a total dick, but it is her choice. there are too many circumstances for me to say that i would agree with that abortion choice or i would totally be against a decision to make an abortion (because there some instances where i am), so i dont think it is plausible to make a law respecting some abortion chioces and outright banning others. i think late term abortions are sick and fucked up whereas early terms arent. the reason why i would argue to keep abortions legal because im not making a decision based on my personal preference - im basing it on the fact that other people have different views and so pro choice is a path that provides choices for both sides.

[c312]

how does it provide choices for both sides?

[Madmartagen]

because if you are against abortion, you can make the choice to not have one. if you are pro choice, you can choose to have an abortion. i know im re-itteratin what i said before, but this way everyone wins. if you ban abortions, you appease only one side of the equation. both sides have their voices heard, its just that pro life people will have to accept the difference in opinion (not accept abortion) on whether a fetus's life is more important than the mothers choice.

[Johnj]

So Mad what your saying is your for KILLING BABIES if the mother doesn't want to be bothered with them.

And as long as we call it something else, so it doesn't sound so fucking bad.

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by Johnj

So Mad what your saying is your for KILLING BABIES if the mother doesn't want to be bothered with them.

And as long as we call it something else, so it doesn't sound so fucking bad.

No actually, it would be KILLING FETUS'S - It isn't a "baby" until it leaves the womb. Now who's calling it something else to make themselves feel better.

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by c312

yeah, you're not understanding a critical part of the issue here. People who think fetuses are alive do not want to stand idle while they are killed. Because they beleive they are lives, killing them is murder, therefore, they don't want people to get them, because they don't want anyone to murder. Saying that people who don't want them shouldn't get them is like telling people not to be serial killers if they don't want to be, but allow people who do want to be to do it. Understand?

I don't see a problem with "killing" something that wasn't even conscious in the first place. What you're arguing here is the death of a POTENTIAL life.

Do you think you shouldn't take a coma patient off of life support because there is a possibility they might came out of it and live a full life?

What if the fetus is threatening the mother's life? Is it okay to let a woman die so that a potential life can be led?

I also don't understand the serial killer comparison - Serial Killers are sick individuals who generally get pleasure from killing CONSCIOUS people who are fully aware of their own existence, and who have actually met people and shared experiences and LIVED - They've been BORN.

Jacking off into a kleenex is an abortion as well. Sperm is a potential child, that isn't conscious...

What about the morning after pill? Because that initial phase of the pregnancy that has been aborted, doesn't resemble a baby in looks, it makes it okay? I don't get it.

[Stammer]

Issues were the right finds the need to enforce their will and morales on other people who for the most part they don't know, they don't care about and probally don't like.

Abortion - It's not your FETUS, it's not your life, it's not your decision to make. Fuck off and let people take care of their misrable exsitances.

Gay Marriage - Again, none of your business nor does it affect you in anyway.

Stem Cell Research - If you don't want the cure don't get it, but don't hold the rest of the species back with your false emotional attachment to things that will never be human, or just flat out ignorance towards modern medicine.

Assisted Suicide - Again, if the person wants to die let them, I don't see why you try to stop people who have terrible diseases and ailments from killing themselves but don't even attempt to apply your beliefs to inmates about be executed. Ever heard of "Redemption" or "Forgiveness" how about that crazy one "Turn the other cheek..."?

All these issues share on common thread, they are OTHER PEOPLES DECISIONS TO MAKE! No one asked you to save them from the wrath of a vengeful God or whatever crock of shit excuse is for interfering in other peoples lives.

Stop caring about the unborn and start caring about the millions of babies who are born.

PS: And to add on to what Tripper said, the law is so fucking general that it doesnt protect young girls who were victims of rape and incest.

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by Stammer

Issues were the right finds the need to enforce their will and morales on other people who for the most part they don't know, they don't care about and probally don't like.

Abortion - It's not your FETUS, it's not your life, it's not your decision to make. Fuck off and let people take care of their misrable exsitances.

Gay Marriage - Again, none of your business nor does it affect you in anyway.

Stem Cell Research - If you don't want the cure don't get it, but don't hold the rest of the species back with your false emotional attachment to things that will never be human, or just flat out ignorance towards modern medicine.

Assisted Suicide - Again, if the person wants to die let them, I don't see why you try to stop people who have terrible diseases and ailments from killing themselves but don't even attempt to apply your beliefs to inmates about be executed. Ever heard of "Redemption" or "Forgiveness" how about that crazy one "Turn the other cheek..."?

All these issues share on common thread, they are OTHER PEOPLES DECISIONS TO MAKE! No one asked you to save them from the wrath of a vengeful God or whatever crock of shit excuse is for interfering in other peoples lives.

Stop caring about the unborn and start caring about the millions of babies who are born.

My thoughts exactly....I mean, these same people that argue about abortion being wrong don't seem to bat an eye at the 30,000 civilian deaths that their support of their government's foreign policy caused, in a war based on false pretenses.....Not a care at all.

So keen to keep people alive and within the realms of their religious bullshit, and yet they contradict all of it with blind support of insane military actions overseas, where INNOCENT civilian death greatly outnumbers anything else.