[tomxtr]

Originally Posted by Coleman

why are we talking about God?

Sorry......Allah. biggrin:

[Coleman]

Originally Posted by tomxtr

Sorry......Allah. biggrin:

happy:

[ninty]

Originally Posted by tomxtr

Not to get off topic, but how has science disproved the existence of God (I noticed you capitalized it, hedging your bet?). Just kidding, I respect, differing opinions. I, like you, am a product of Catholic schools and have doubted the existence of God. I think it shows a degree of intelligence on your part to question what you have been taught.

While faith may be irrelevant to you, I think that it is very relevant to a lot of people. Provided they are not Islamic extremists, what is wrong with people believing that they will go to hell if they don't behave. I don't trust human nature to be enough to keep people in line.

Back on topic, I don't believe it is the nation's best interest for its government to fully disclose all that it knows when it comes to national security matters. Perhaps there were bombs that brought the buildings down. If there were, my sense is the government knows that there were. I know, thank you captain obvious. There may be reasons why they have not disclosed this that relate to on-going investigations, etc. The nation's intelligence community took a real black eye for 9/11, I don't see why there would be any concerted effort to hide additional information just for the sake of saving face, if there was any to be saved.

As far as a democracy goes, you are correct. The catch, however, is that the US is really a republic and not a true democracy. In a true democracy Gore would have won the election with a majority of the popular votes, but because of the electorate, that didn't happen. Your point is taken, however.

The media in this country is nototiously slanted to the left, so you are correct where they are concerned.

I didn't mean so much that science has found God not to exist for humanity, but rather for myself personally. It is impossible to prove or disprove the existence of God. I have no problems with anyone worshipping any God. I believe in freedom of Religion, so if anyone wants to go and pray, go right ahead. You won't have any objections from me, however, I have made up my own mind as to where I stand on the subject of God and would rather not have people tellimg me that i'm one way or anyother because I don't believe in God or don't pray.

Yes, I know the US is a Republic, but I used the word democacy just to describe the environment most western countries live in. Like you said though, point taken.

On the point of the media, I would have to disagree to a point, and hear me out on this one.

First off, let me say that I for one absolutley dispise prety much all cable news networks and have gone cold turkey with the news. I get all my info off the net and maybe some local news, but I don't even really watch that either. I think the media has done a horrible job representing both sides when were talking about left vs right. I think the media has to an extent grilled the right at times, as you would probably agree by more or less smearing the bus admn at times. However, I believe the media is complicit in not providing a lot of information that is deemed to be too controvertial or anti-american. I think there are a ton of stories that don't get airtime because people are concerned for their jobs which gets in the way of journalism. That's how I see it anyway.

[Bleuachdu]

I don't weigh in too often on this forum because of the obvious polarity on many important issues. What I read seems to involve very little actual discussion on either side of an argument. In any case, here goes:

Pyro, I give you more credit than a lot of people on here. I think you're probably brighter than you let on. However, I think even you'll admit that you're neither a physicist or an engineer. That being said, neither am I. Nor is ninty, stackem, mr. clean, stammer or anyone else who has posted in this thread. How then can anyone of us intelligently comment on something as colossal as the collapse of the World Trade Center? I've taken basic physics courses, but I absolutely cannot fathom the dynamic complexities of one of earth’s largest structures collapsing. I simply cannot begin to believe that after reading a report I can make an accurate inference as to what actually happened that day in NYC. In fact, in my opinion, to do so would be the embodiment of arrogance.

I admit that this is a relatively bleak outlook. However, I believe that ultimately the truth will be known, as the diligence and research of those who are passionate about such things will uncover what we don’t already know. Maybe that person is you. If you are compelled to pursue such an undertaking, then do so. But please, take your work beyond reading a few internet articles and siding with a professor at BYU. I’m not saying that you guys haven’t, but I wouldn’t be inclined to latch onto anything posted here, as many of you are just about as credible as Wolf Blitzer (translation: not credible). After all, in the age of disinformation and conspiracy theories, can we really trust anyone other than ourselves?

Finally, I’d like to address the whole left vs. right garbage. The elitist attitude displayed by both sides is juvenile. Ninty, if you want to make a difference and change peoples minds, don’t alienate people with the hard-line attitude. You did to a few people in this thread what you said you hate; to tell people that their core beliefs are wrong. This applies to everyone else as well. I am not asking anyone to make concessions or take a step away from what they accept as true; rather, I am suggesting that when we state our positions, we be civil about it. Perception is very powerful. If I perceive you as a dick, I likely won’t put a lot of credence into what you have to say. But if you present a valid case, I may be interested in pursuing things on my own to a further degree.

Well, that sums up my thoughts. I hope it’s all readable and makes sense.

[tomxtr]

imwithstupid: Well said, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Please don't discount that.

[Machette]

I think Bleuachu makes a valiant effort in summing up my own beliefs. Personally I have persisted on watching documentaries and reading books on 9/11, till this day I still have not considered a possible answer as to exactly what happened on that day. Nor can I give a possibly explanation as to the solution. Thats left for people with bigger brains than my own.

[Pyro]

Hell...I think planes knocked over the WTC...I just don't think you should disregard something because it is different take on it.

All I know is that it happened and we need to move on with our lives.

[Cpt. Obvious]

If there were bombs in the WTC buildings. Wouldn't they have been detonated alot sooner than they were. Which would of killed thousands more. Don't get me wrong I believe something is just not right with everything that occured on 9/11. A plane definetly didn't hit the Pentagon. If someone can find the surveilance video from that day they object that hit they building looked like it was about 12 feet long.

[ninty]

Originally Posted by Bleuachdu

I don't weigh in too often on this forum because of the obvious polarity on many important issues. What I read seems to involve very little actual discussion on either side of an argument. In any case, here goes:

Pyro, I give you more credit than a lot of people on here. I think you're probably brighter than you let on. However, I think even you'll admit that you're neither a physicist or an engineer. That being said, neither am I. Nor is ninty, stackem, mr. clean, stammer or anyone else who has posted in this thread. How then can anyone of us intelligently comment on something as colossal as the collapse of the World Trade Center? I've taken basic physics courses, but I absolutely cannot fathom the dynamic complexities of one of earth’s largest structures collapsing. I simply cannot begin to believe that after reading a report I can make an accurate inference as to what actually happened that day in NYC. In fact, in my opinion, to do so would be the embodiment of arrogance.

I admit that this is a relatively bleak outlook. However, I believe that ultimately the truth will be known, as the diligence and research of those who are passionate about such things will uncover what we don’t already know. Maybe that person is you. If you are compelled to pursue such an undertaking, then do so. But please, take your work beyond reading a few internet articles and siding with a professor at BYU. I’m not saying that you guys haven’t, but I wouldn’t be inclined to latch onto anything posted here, as many of you are just about as credible as Wolf Blitzer (translation: not credible). After all, in the age of disinformation and conspiracy theories, can we really trust anyone other than ourselves?

Finally, I’d like to address the whole left vs. right garbage. The elitist attitude displayed by both sides is juvenile. Ninty, if you want to make a difference and change peoples minds, don’t alienate people with the hard-line attitude. You did to a few people in this thread what you said you hate; to tell people that their core beliefs are wrong. This applies to everyone else as well. I am not asking anyone to make concessions or take a step away from what they accept as true; rather, I am suggesting that when we state our positions, we be civil about it. Perception is very powerful. If I perceive you as a dick, I likely won’t put a lot of credence into what you have to say. But if you present a valid case, I may be interested in pursuing things on my own to a further degree.

Well, that sums up my thoughts. I hope it’s all readable and makes sense.

I disagree to a point. If everyone had to be experts to form an opinion of an event or subject, there wouldn't be many opinions floating around. Hell, the only thing I’m possibly considered an expert in would be Hockey or Canadian Football.

No one here is creating formulas analyzing collapse times because as you said, no one is a physicist. I wouldn't know where to start. However, what I can do is read watch and listen to what others have to say on the subject who are more credible in the industry such as a Physics professor.

I question things. It's my way. I question what my Canadian government says because they get caught lying. I question what the US government says because they have been caught lying as well. Why shouldn't I question something like this?

I believe I have read enough books, watched enough conferences and listened to enough qualified individuals to know that the "official truth" is definitely not being told to the people. Everyone deserves to know what happened. Many people have family members fighting and dying in foreign countries based upon this one act. If this act is found to be fasle, does this not invalidate the justification for war? I know some on here would say no, but the point is, the whole question of 9/11 is extremly important. People's lives are based upon it. This is why I find it important to seek the truth on a question like this.