as you know the original is FUBAR and you can't see your posts, so here is the original plus my opinion: (when I noticed that it wouldn't post I copy-pasted into a word document)

Originally Posted by Nappo

A minute of Silence!!

If you are still shaken by the horrifying scenes of September 11, please observe 2 minutes of silence for the 5,000 civilian lives lost in the New York, Washington DC and Pennsylvania attacks.

While we're at it, let's have 13 minutes of silence for the 130,000 Iraqi civilians killed in 1991 by order of President Bush Sr. Take another moment to remember how Americans celebrated and cheered in the streets.

Now another 20 minutes of silence for the 200,000 Iranians killed by Iraqi soldiers using weapons and money provided to young Saddam Hussein by the American government before the great eagle turned all its power against Iraq.

Another 15 minutes of silence for the Russians and 150,000 Afghans killed by the Talibaan troops who were supported and trained by the CIA. Plus 10 minutes of silence for 100,000 Japanese killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki by the Atomic bombs dropped by the USA.

We've just kept quiet for one hour: two minute for the Americans killed in NY, DC, and Pennsylvania, 58 minutes for their victims throughout the world.

If you are still in awe, let's have another hour of silence for all those killed in Vietnam, which is not something Americans like to admit. Or for the massacre in Panama in 1989, where Americans troops attacked poor villagers, leaving 20,000 Panamanians homeless and thousands more dead. Or for the millions of children who have died because of the USA embargo on Iraq and Cuba. Or the hundreds of thousands brutally murdered throughout the world by USA-sponsored civil wars and coups d'etat (Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, Bolivia, Guatemala, El Salvador to name a few).

Now, let's talk about terrorism, shall we?

about Iraq-

who was it that turned off radar sites so US radar seeking missiles would hit civilians instead? certainly not the US

about Iran-

the war would have happened either way, with or without US support

about Afghanistan-

agree, if the CIA stayed the fuck out there would be no Taliban, the USSR would have "civilized" the Afghans by force and they would become like the other ex. USSR republics after the collapse of the USSR

about Hiroshima-

The Japs were fanatical and ready to fight to the death, an invasion was estimated to cost a million allied casualties and most of the adult population of Japan, I think 100, 000 is nothing compared to most of Japan.

about Panama-

Noriega's goon squads were the ones who started it by terrorizing the families of servicemen who lived in Panama bases under a TREATY with Panama. I saw a show about the SEALS in the prelude it showed how Noriegas goons stopped an SUV and dragged a US officer out and shot him in front of his family! People who can do that deserve nothing short of death!

[Innoxx]

I think you solved it, i whole-heartedly agree with your facts.

[Zoner]

Here's my response:

Not a single line of the original post was his! He copy and pasted the entire thing. I was suspicious when I saw his bad english in his subsequent posts...the original post was flawless.

I did a Google search on the first line of his post and it came back with 10 pages of results. I saw that exact same text (I think it started as an email spam) in posts on other boards, in .pdf files, and on other web sites.

Come back when you have an original thought rattling around in that Finnish skull of yours...

Unoriginal bastard.


Zone

[ColinXP [3rdArmy]]

Originally Posted by Zoner91

Here's my response:

Not a single line of the original post was his! He copy and pasted the entire thing. I was suspicious when I saw his bad english in his subsequent posts...the original post was flawless.

I did a Google search on the first line of his post and it came back with 10 pages of results. I saw that exact same text (I think it started as an email spam) in posts on other boards, in .pdf files, and on other web sites.

Come back when you have an original thought rattling around in that Finnish skull of yours...

Unoriginal bastard.


Zone

Congratulations Detective Zoner91, you've done it again! Does knowing that Nappo didn't come up with that himself, make you feel better about yourself and what you support?

It shouldn't so Don't flatter yourself.

If thats the best response you have to someone making a very valid point about America's global actions, then you sir, have no right to discuss politics seriously.

I've noticed that you have a huge fucking chip on your shoulder. Sadly enough you've found an outlet for it here.

hake: hake: hake:

[ColinXP [3rdArmy]]

Innoxx - You do realize that Stryker's response was merely speculation and opinion. It didn't contain a single "fact." I expected better of you.

[Zoner]

Man, if there's anyone on this forum who doesn't have a chip on his shoulder, it's me, dude. I'm just pointing out a bullshit artist when I see one.

You are right on one thing, though. I don't have an opinion on America's global actions because I'm not clear with the facts. The only people that DO know exactly what is going on are the powers that be and high ranking military officials. If you think you're in the know about the REAL things that go on in the seamy underbelly of the world's politics, your friggin' delusional.

So, get off your high-horse and go back down to Mom's basement to get de-briefed on the state of the world's affairs.


Zone

[ColinXP [3rdArmy]]

I'm glad we can agree on at least one acount.

[BallisticWookie]

Originally Posted by Zoner91

Man, if there's anyone on this forum who doesn't have a chip on his shoulder, it's me, dude. I'm just pointing out a bullshit artist when I see one.

You are right on one thing, though. I don't have an opinion on America's global actions because I'm not clear with the facts. The only people that DO know exactly what is going on are the powers that be and high ranking military officials. If you think you're in the know about the REAL things that go on in the seamy underbelly of the world's politics, your friggin' delusional.

So, get off your high-horse and go back down to Mom's basement to get de-briefed on the state of the world's affairs.


Zone

wink: Nappo did copy and paste that entire text. The original was written by a Osama Kawwa Amman of Jordan. But whatever, it's not as if the poor old down trodden Arabs arent guilty of anything in their lives hake:

[quote:4ea6b]Innoxx - You do realize that Stryker's response was merely speculation and opinion. It didn't contain a single "fact." I expected better of you.[/quote:4ea6b]

Yeah, and so is fucking everything you and others who share your views say, so whats your point ?? All we ever do here is speculate without knowing the EXACT facts, it's all speculation, and to think any different is just plainly and simply...stupid.

Lets take a moment of silence and hit Nappo over the head with a steel dildo.

[Star85]

Originally Posted by Blitz

Lets take a moment of silence and hit Nappo over the head with a steel dildo.

........steel......dildo????? lol


Anyway that wasnt right at all. mad:

Yeah, it is a bit crude to kill him with his method of sexual gratification. But hey, hes a stinkin terrorist so he deserves it.

[Recycled Spooge]

Originally Posted by Blitz

Yeah, it is a bit crude to kill him with his method of sexual gratification. But hey, hes a stinkin terrorist so he deserves it.

Totally uncalled for.

Well Hussein would not have gone to war with Iran because he would not have been in power without the US, nor for that matter would the Taliban have existed to give aid to Bin Laden (who was also trained by the US), ditto our invasion of Panama would not have happened if the CIA would not have trained and put that madman in power either – who literally studied at a dictator college we had in Central America. This guy did not even mention the Iraqi CHILDREN who died by the thousands AFTER the war because of the disruption of clean water systems. Much of the major problems in the world right now does come from America’s short-sighted and very selfish foreign policy that pumps guns and money into the hands of barbaric madmen simply because they are conveniently pointing their hatred someplace we wish to hit clandestinely, or because they open their countries up to US business like they are brothels to be cleaned out – only to have the monsters get off the leash eventually.

But to imply that feeling horror and sadness for the victims of the September 11th attacks is somehow wrong because of other horrors that have happened in the past is simply misguided. Of course we feel there is a difference when such acts of barbaric and senseless slaughter happen in modern, civilized countries compared to countries where tribal clashes still rule the order of the day.

I can sympathize with the argument that there is often a double standards about such things though.

Sure I want Dick Chaney to look me in the eye and say with a straight face "our pending invasion of Iraq has nothing to do with putting in an American puppet "democracy" so Exxon & Co. can waltz in and take all that oil."

Sure I want the American people to wake up to the fact the Bush Administration is hiding behind the flag and war hoops in an effort to distract them from serious problems at home and their hand in causing them, not to mention their chipping away at civil liberties and corporate oversight.

Sure I want America as a people to wake up and see to it that these freedoms and inalienable rights inherent in our system should be afforded to ALL people, and the hypocritical policies that defend them here while other countries are enslaved by the dictators WE install ends once and forever.

But that does not change the fact that thousands of innocent people were murdered by madmen last year on 9-11 and should be mourned by all civilized peoples.

As for the atomic bombs, he stopped short of mentioning the ghastly atrocities inflicted upon all of Asia by the Japanese army for a decade and the fact the collected countries of the world had estimated at least one million casualties if Japan was to be invaded by conventional means. Having already suffered for years NO ONE was interested in losing more of their sons when two bombs would do the trick. The deaths in those two attacks were actually a pretty small sum compared to the civilian deaths in other cities in that war that came about by conventional bombing.

Of course the bombing of Dresden by the US and UK, and Rotterdam by the Germans and Nanking by the Japanese were all terrorist acts. Anytime a civilian population is attacked in and effort to demoralize and “terrorize” them it is an act of terrorism. As was the United States mining of Nicaraguan harbors in the 1980s, which led to the U.S. being the only national government in history found guilty of terrorist acts by the World Court. No wonder President Bush has perpetrated the disgraceful act withdrawing the US signature from the current World Court’s war crimes documents. It IS a disgrace and it IS hypocritical for the U.S. to preach freedom and democracy, and yet be the only industrial nation to feel it should somehow be exempt from the judgment of the other countries of the world.

But none of that changes what happened here last year and that it is right to never forget.

I have heard other people mistake their criticism for US-led capitalist policies as a reason to say what happened on 9 11 was no big deal compared to other atrocities, etc. One guy said that very thing at a party recently. I did not say (but wanted to) “something tells me if your pregnant wife sitting in the other room had been on one of those planes or in one of those towers you would be thinking it a bigger deal than you now profess.”

All compassionate people should be outraged by such acts of barbaric murder. But it only makes sense that you are even more outraged when it was your own people and society who were the ones butchered.

i dont think president bush delibrately kill those iraqi civiians in 1991.

No he did not. But the only reason the Iraqis invaded Kuwait was to get the oil there. The only reason we came to their rescue was because, in the minds of the oil companies who OWN George Bush and his son, it was OUR oil they were taking. The talk about defending a democracy was ridiculous as only males who are directly related to the royal family can vote in Kuwait.

But your point is well taken too, the U.S., or other civilized societies, do not murder civilians as a deliberate act for the sake of doing so – except in cases of all out war. But we (the CIA) DID set off a truck bomb outside a masque, very much like the one's extremists are setting off in Israel, in an effort to assassinate an extremist cleric, who survived even though a great many innocent people were killed. We DID fire cruise missiles into the Sudan and destroy the factory that made 90% of that nations antibiotics and other pharmaceuticals, killing another group of people. I wonder what we would call it if Hussein or any other person or group destroyed 90% of our pharmaceuticals, killing innocent people in the process? They would probably call it terrorism.

Regardless of how indefensible the acts of 9-11 were, the U.S.’s shortsighted and selfish dealings in other nations only fuel hatred in generations of children whose lives are misery because of the tyranny we support for the sake of “our own interests abroad”. Those children grow up seeing us as the major force of evil in the world – not entirely without reason.