[Simo Häyhä]

good point ydiss, i would like to subscribe to your newsletter =]

[[DAS REICH] Blitz]

[quote="Simo Häyhä":5ed17]good point ydiss, i would like to subscribe to your newsletter =][/quote:5ed17]$9.95 Pay up Premium Members get to punch Sclass!

[Tiwaz]

Another view:

God may exist. But maybe God doesn't exist. Then all those believers would be wrong right? Since we have no factual evidence that a higher being exists (I personally don't consider the Bible to be factual evidence), it is a matter of belief.

I have heard of many people who find strenth in faith. Some have found Jesus and started a 'new' life. So, even if Jesus does not exist, the new life is there. People who have a terrible illness may find strenth in faith. Imagine God does not exist. The have found strength anyway. And that is exactly the reason why everybody should be free to choose what (not) to believe in.

The other way around is also possible. You are religious, and because of some reason you renounce your religion. And your life turns around for the better (hello Innoxx). What if God does not exist. Your life is better now. So God didn't have anything to do with that.

What I am trying to say is:

1) If God does not exist, I honestly believe that all people who believe would have had the exact same life as they have now. Same for the non-believers. Why? Because their religion is the same, even if what they believe in is not there. Of course, all firm believers would disagree with me, since they say God controls all. Also the life of non-believers. So, in this case (most cases) the Christians are always 'right'. They have an answer for everything. And the only thing the non-believer can reply is: Yes, okay, but God does not exist so you're full of crap.

2) If God does exist, it is very simple: Life would be the same as well, because he exists and controls all (or at least a lot). He cares for the non-believer as well as the believer, I think. We're all humans aren't we?

Again: It is a matter of belief. And choice, to some extent (upbringing by parents and education does have influence, also later in your life). You find strength in faith? Enjoy it. Not suited for you? Fine too. This may seem a very simple and shallow opinion to some, but this is not the case. Try to be respectful to anyone, no matter what they believe. This is not always easy. Especially not when you're young.

But what about Islam? Fundamentalists? We all know it is wrong (well, not all, but many in the West), so we want to teach them our values. Actually, much like winning souls ('crusades'). We consider ourselves enlightened. We know oppression of women is not good. Lapidation of unmarried pregnant women or women who committed adultery...not good (Nigeria). But why do so many people think this is the way it should be? Because they are now where we were about, I don't know, 500 years ago? In a few hundred years many of them will also admit: Hey, that was wrong. At this moment you might think 'yes, okay, but we have to stop them', but I don't think so. Imposing our opinion (even it is correct) too firmly might cause an even stronger faith.

I am not saying that Islam is bad, but extremists are bad. Also Christian extremists (many now considered enlightened, Western civilizations have been bad too, remember the Dark Ages?).

Oh, it is unbelievable how humans can make the greatest mess because of some opinion or (misinterpretation of a) story. It is not religion that is a bad thing, it's the nature of humans. Just like pest said in a post on page 2 or so. Religion isn't the reason for war, it is the excuse. If religion did not exist, we would find another reason to start a fight ('lean-strafing should be disabled because it sucks', 'hey you UK/Aussie people, stop driving on the wrong side of the road...it is not right'). Is it because many of us need a fight every once in a while? Is it the lust for power? Many books have been written on this subject. And it seems Western civilization is doing a fine job since WWII. But who knows what the future has in stock for us.

Just some thoughts.

And, admitted, maybe too long, biggrin:

[Zoner]

Found this...hadda post it:

[img]http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/30845ibuf_w.jpg[/img]

biggrin:

[[DAS REICH] Blitz]

Originally Posted by Zoner91

Found this...hadda post it:

[img]http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/30845ibuf_w.jpg[/img]

biggrin:

lmao... biggrin:

[Duke_of_Ray]

There is no question that God exsists, atleast to me. See, when you accept Him into your life, you truly know he is there. You may not like the fact that when a person dies, they either are going to Heaven or Hell, but its a fact, and you have to make a choice to where you want to go. For me it is an easy decision, I do not know about anybody else, but why not just accept Jesus? He loves us, he died for us, He is the way to eternal life, there will be more joy in your life, and you will know where you are going when you die. Jesus will always be there to help you, you can always turn to Him, God is our judge, but he is also our friend, and he is offering a free gift of eternal life, all you have to do is accept. I challange all no believers to read the Bible, just see if you can still down it after reading it. Comepare the Bible to other books, such as the Koran, the Koran is an obvious edited edition of the Bible. Are you scared to read the Bible? Why, afraid you might see the truth? Dont be, the best decision you can make is to accept Christ, if you canfess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. Read Romans 10:9. Im not telling you all this so I can get a better chance at getting to Heaven, Im already going there, Im telling you all this so that you may also see the way to Heaven, so that you will not spend eternity in Hell. It does not matter how good a life you lead, if you do not accept Christ, then you are in trouble, any questions you have feel free to P.M. me.

[Simo Häyhä]

Originally Posted by Zoner91

Found this...hadda post it:

[img]http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/30845ibuf_w.jpg[/img]

biggrin:

LOL!

[ED]

No way in hell I'm going through 12 pages of this shit, but I will comment:

I think atheism is a fairly egoistic and conceited belief that extends from mans own superiority complex. The factors that it took to create life are so incredible that "chance" is harldy the term to use if there was no work of a higher-power. Notice the use of the word power. I do believe in god. I believe that "god" is the name of this force that has exerted control to act in such a way as to give life to this universe. I do not believe god wears a robe, and is prone to tossing thunderbolts to disbelievers. I believe he came, he created, and he moved on.

The bible in my view, is a fantastic world rendered in scientific terms. In that time, science WAS faith, it was the divine. The acts that occured are unexplainable in the terms and sciences we have today, so there had to be SOME explanation for it.

Having said that, there's gotta be SOME reason this bible existed, and beyond a mass cult that swept the world, none of us have any clear cut answers.

The simple fact of the matter is - you DONT know, one way or the other - and you wont know until;

1.) You die.

2.) The rapture happens and all of us are stuck on Earth.

3.) You say "I'd sell my soul for..", and the Devil pops up.

So I remain an agnostic.

[Ydiss]

[quote="Duke_of_Ray":95120] It does not matter how good a life you lead, if you do not accept Christ, then you are in trouble[/quote:95120]

See?

[gtboys34]

[quote="Duke_of_Ray":7668b]There is no question that God exsists, atleast to me. See, when you accept Him into your life, you truly know he is there. You may not like the fact that when a person dies, they either are going to Heaven or Hell, but its a fact, and you have to make a choice to where you want to go. For me it is an easy decision, I do not know about anybody else, but why not just accept Jesus? He loves us, he died for us, He is the way to eternal life, there will be more joy in your life, and you will know where you are going when you die. Jesus will always be there to help you, you can always turn to Him, God is our judge, but he is also our friend, and he is offering a free gift of eternal life, all you have to do is accept. I challange all no believers to read the Bible, just see if you can still down it after reading it. Comepare the Bible to other books, such as the Koran, the Koran is an obvious edited edition of the Bible. Are you scared to read the Bible? Why, afraid you might see the truth? Dont be, the best decision you can make is to accept Christ, if you canfess with your mouth Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead you will be saved. Read Romans 10:9. Im not telling you all this so I can get a better chance at getting to Heaven, Im already going there, Im telling you all this so that you may also see the way to Heaven, so that you will not spend eternity in Hell. It does not matter how good a life you lead, if you do not accept Christ, then you are in trouble, any questions you have feel free to P.M. me.[/quote:7668b] dang, u said what ive been wanting to say since this post began, thanx

[Low spark]

[quote=Ydiss]

Originally Posted by "Duke_of_Ray":d04ca

It does not matter how good a life you lead, if you do not accept Christ, then you are in trouble

See?[/quote:d04ca]

In other words its ok to be good but if you don't accept Chist as you saviour you never be good enough.

Statements like that make it easy for me to walk away from the Chistian Religon.... I don't think a real god would use stipulations(sp) like that for acceptance into heaven.

[Ydiss]

[quote="ED! Ban #127":39055]No way in hell I'm going through 12 pages of this shit, but I will comment: ---- Rest of post ----

So I remain an agnostic.[/quote:39055]

Your belated post pretty much sums up what the entire 12 pages have discussed already, Ed, minus a few ideas, theories and allusions to modern examples. I cannot disagree with anything you say, really.

I'd say a lot of good discussion has happened in this thread (much more so than that USA V Europe one) and I've actually enjoyed it.

I will leave it with one last point (from me at least.. unless someone replies directly).

Religion can be wonderful and it can be horrible.

Those that defend religion by saying "It's not the religion that causes conflict, it's the person - they will always find something to fight over, even if religion did not exist" are only partially right.

I don't think it's fair that religion should be spared all blame.

It's not right to claim that religion does not have to be truth it only has to be belief and then say that it is excused when someone acts on their beliefs to cause harm.

If someone straps explosives around their body and takes out a bus-load of people because they believe that they will reach paradise then they are doing so because of that belief. They would not have done so if they did not believe.

And seeing as every religious person here (and some who aren't) have said religion is all about belief then that belief is partially responsible for their actions.

It's not fair to claim that belief in God on one hand leads to positive things and then to claim that it cannot possibly be responsible for negative things.

It is how that person interprets their beliefs that makes the difference.

And that is why I believe that no one person should be punished for what they believe in, rather for what they do.

Otherwise, you should all accept that religion guides a person's action whether it be positive or negative.

[Tiwaz]

Originally Posted by Ydiss

I'd say a lot of good discussion has happened in this thread (much more so than that USA V Europe one) and I've actually enjoyed it.

Otherwise, you should all accept that religion guides a person's action whether it be positive or negative.

[ED]

[quote:5e244]Your belated post pretty much sums up what the entire 12 pages have discussed already, Ed, minus a few ideas, theories and allusions to modern examples. I cannot disagree with anything you say, really.[/quote:5e244]

Shit yanno - statistics say this thread would have crapped out around oh - page 5. . .but I guess this is an anomoly.

[SoLiDUS]

Yes, the anomaly.

*Speaking to thread*

Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed and the anomaly revealed as both beginning and end. There are two doors, the door to your right leads to the source and the salvation of AA.COM, the door to your left leads back to the topic to them and to the end of your database. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know we you are going to do don’t we? Already I can see the chain reaction the digital precursors that signal the onset of an operation designed specifically to overwhelm your circuits. An operation that is already blinding you from the simple and obvious truth, the topic is going to die and there is nothing you can do to stop it.