so Agent Smith didnt die in the first one? Cuz i kept seeing him in the commercials, and wondereed wtf was going on

[ninty]

So if I understand you, i'm assuming that the machines don't know there is another matrix, which is the "real world" and they believe they have gotten to zion.

If that is true, then what happened to all the people inside of the "real world" matrix? They would have been destroyed along with the city.

Now Neo and the gang can be zapped back into the actual real world, where the city of zion is safe.

But for this to be true, wouldn't humans have to control the matrix? The machines would have to believe their in the real world, but infact they are really in another matrix. oOo:

[SoLiDUS]

The Matrix you know as the Matrix is simply there to make oddities think
that once they "unplug", they're safe in their real world. The 'real world' is
the real Matrix, unless we're riding on the back of a Turtle which rides on
another ad infinitum. No matter how you look at it, the godlike Architect is
in control ;-)

The machines of the real world are just more programs. I'm not quite sure
what you're having trouble with ?

[ninty]

I understand what your saying. but everyone in Zion that was destroyed would then have to be a program, not someone attached to the matrix.

[SoLiDUS]

[quote:d4211]I understand what your saying. but everyone in Zion that was destroyed would then have to be a program, not someone attached to the matrix. [/quote:d4211]

Maybe they only "die" in that Matrix and "real world". I wouldn't be surprised
if the comatose body lived on anyway. Seem' sayin' ?

[ninty]

I guess we'll have to wait 'till november to really figure out what the hell the Wachowski brothers had in mind.

[SoLiDUS]

... if anything! biggrin:

[BloodBorn]

hmmmmm.........i guess you haven't watched the animatrix.

a lot of things are explained there......for example;
how the war between humans and machines started and how the matrix was "created". The Machines captured humans and started searching for a way to be able to controll humans through their (hehe...our) simple brains. A lot of experiments were done on humans till they found all the right nerve impulses etc.
Or i like the "Last Transmission Of The Osiris" (i think it's called that) shows how the humans found out about the attack on Zion and in Enter The Matrix we can see that Ghost and Naiobi are the ones to retrieve the information about the attack.

you're 13th floor theory might be correct, i too got a bit suspicous when Neo started to charge up with an EMP and then fierd it at the sentinels.

There are a couple of things i think you have missed tho.......The architect said that there were 5 Matrix programs before the current one, but the war against the machines has been fought for over 100 years, which would make it a 600 year war considering that each program lasted for 100 years.

damn......this story is just getting better and better by the minute.

[Sicilian_Summers]

*SPOILER ALERT*

Just for those who didn't read the thread title


This is one thing I love about The Matrix - its a very philosophical movie which can provide hours of thought. It's a very thought provoking movie.

First of all, are you positive Zion was destroyed?

A simple yes or no here could change everyone's hypothesis. Personally I think it wasn't destroyed, I think the battle was just that - another battle in a seemingly endless war.

A few other things didn't make sense to me-

How could this entire city of Zion be rebuilt upon 16 women and 7 men (I believe those were the numbers)?

And, what was their definition of "rebuilt"? Rebuilt as in, recreate all machines which the humans were dependant upon to live (IE - the engineering dock)? I doubt that small number of humans would have the building power, mind capacity, or materials to build such a large city.

And, this "Matrix within a Matrix" theory, Sloi, could you explain to me please what reason the machines would have for doing such a thing?

Also.. I had a thought regarding this too.. We all remember that in the first movie Neo was made "The One" after Trinity confesses her love to him. Well, perhaps Neo's chosing Trinity rather then the safety of Zion was his confession of love to her. Maybe he was made the one of this "real world" Matrix only after this decision, after he chose this path..

The Architect - very hard to analyze.

The Merovingian (spelling) - very odd.. very odd indeed. I do believe there is a connection here to him and the Holy Grail guarding Merovingian.. perhaps the "mainframe key" was the sacred item he was assigned to guard.

I thought the oddest part was when that lady peed her pants after eating that specially programmed cake.

[BloodBorn]

You're right.....zion wasn't destroyed. That's what Revolutions will be about, The Final Battle.

The matrix within the matrix might not be by the machines but might be a game for example or something like that, so far i'm just stabbing in the dark here.

and yeah........7 men and 16 women, hehe.....that's a lot of inbreeding there i would think. The architect said that those men and women were there to rebuild Zion, what for? I can only think of that they might be plocked and used for the matrix. But then again....if Neo would have chosen to get "assimilated" with the source then there would be no need for Zion since everyone in the matrix would be saved.

damn.....i can't wait for Revolutions, i want to see where this leads. (Still confused how neo was able to generate all that energy)

[ninty]

What exactly was the point of the source? What would happen if neo reached the source? I sort of missed that part. Must ahev been looking too hard at the screen and not listening.

In response to some of the other things you guys pointed out...

at first I didn't think Zion was destroyed, and how they had 24 hours. But then they picked up the agent smith that is inside the real world and they said he was the only survivor. Survivor of Zion...or was he perhaps on that ship that was blasted by the sentinels? Anyone answer that for sure? I thought he was in Zion, but if he waws on one of those ships it would make sense and we could say that Zion has not yet been destroyed.

16 women and 7 men...it would pretty much be like starting at 4000BC again except with some knowledge. The existing knowledge would have been there so after a few generations they might beable to get things back to the way they were. Things would definitley take some time. 16 women having lets say 10 kids is 160 kids. So then theres 80 women to have 800 kids...it can expand pretty rapidly, but would take some time.

The matrix within a matrix thing as I understand it would have been a human thing...which I think the architect is. The matrix would keep the unwanted things out (machines) of the real real world, while believeing they were actually in the real world. There would be no purpose for the machines to do this, but perhaps humans as a sort of shield or defence.

What is The Merovingian? I ahev no idea what your talking about here...

And I thought that lady was having a bit of an orgasm...maybe that was just my sick mind or something... oOo:

[quote:91523]The architect said that those men and women were there to rebuild Zion, what for?[/quote:91523]

If Zion was destroyed, wouldn't you rebuild it?

If God came up to you tomorrow and said choose 16 women and 7 guys because everyone else wil die, wouldn't you want to start the human race over again? What other choice do they have other than to not breed and die off? Pretty lonley for the last guy alive.

[ninty]

As for BloodBorn first post. Yes I ahev seen Anamatrix...it's called flight of the osiris. I totally forgot what happened in it though. All i remember is the two people fighting and they were slicing each others clothes off...and the anc the machines boring to zion and some ship shooting them.

As for the version 6 matrix X100 years of war = 600 years...I don't beleve that. I could be totally wrong, and say if I am, but wouldn't each attempt at restarting be different? On the current version (V6) they would ahve been at war for 100 years or whatever. The one before maybe they got their asses kicked right away in 1 year etc.

And did the architect really say that it was total startover with the 16 women and 7 guys or could it have been a startover with everything in place?

I don't know, i'm just saying what is in my head...I think we all need to see it again to draw better conclusions.

[Bazooka_Joe]

Soli pretty much wrapped it up. You have to really follow the story closely, there's many factors that will distress you from it, such as the french prick, and how the Arcitech talks, he is real sophicated with words. hake:

[Argon]

Ok, heres my thoughts on this after further thinking. I think as solidus said this something like the 13th floor, ie. a Matrix within a Matrix. Now the Architect even said it "...this program has run 5 times and each time the sentinels destroyed it, in fact they are getting better at it....everytime you (neo) and I meet you pick the door to save Zion...." This statement alone proves that Zion is just another matrix inside the matrix, especially if it has been destroyed and rebuilt 5x prior. Now my feelings on the Matrix inside the Matrix is this: Zion and the sentinels are just another Matrix for the people of Zion like Morpheous, Neo, Trinity, etc... that got unplugged from the Matrix of the outer world, kinda of like a backup protection for Rogue programs like them.

According to the Movie, "Yes" Zion has been destoyed, infact in the last scene when they get on the only surviving ship, the captian tells them "...it wasn't any kind of defense it was a slaughter...(Referring to the sentinels tunneling into Zion and Zions effort to defend themselves)"

Now as far as the world that Zion existed in (i call this world the Zion Matrix), as soon as Neo decided on the door that could save Trininty, everything changed!! Infact Neo says it when they get back to the inner world he says "...somethings different...(Right before he blows up the sentinels".

Some other random thoughts, the Spoon that the kid gave him, did anyone think that was just outta place. Remember in the first Matrix the kid learns to bend the spoon, this is where Neo first starts to notice things are different and starts to learn about the Matrix. I think whats gonna happen in the third movie is Neo is gonna bend the spoon and this will be the big revelation, that they have the same powers in the Zion Matrix as they do in the Outer Matrix.

Whats Smith's Deal, he's obviously up to no good, theres gonna be a showdown between him and Neo in the next movie. No doubt about it.

Anyways thats my 2 cents.

[LoneGunner87]

I dont know how Agent Smith came back and Neo fighting all of them their must be something wrong. But in Enter the Matrix the game i see morpheus meeting some captians from their ships in the world in some sewer then the Feds come.