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Default 06-05-2006, 11:45 AM

I mean some of the items shown in the press conference were not the actual items purchased by the terrorists. This is misleading to those watching the press conference because they automatically assume those items being shown were actually in posession by those being held.
  
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Default 06-05-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninty
I mean some of the items shown in the press conference were not the actual items purchased by the terrorists. This is misleading to those watching the press conference because they automatically assume those items being shown were actually in posession by those being held.
but did they purchase them and they just didn't get their hands on their purchased item before the sting? Or did they have nothing to do with the suspects?


  
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Default 06-05-2006, 03:14 PM

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Originally Posted by Machette
Fucking "Sun" papers. But it's more than likely that canadians are willingly bending down to give up civil liberties. gg. Also its calgary, 95% of the province are conservatives.
so once again it's not the plotters that are at fault...it's the press and the gullible public, ffs. rolleyes:
  
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Default 06-05-2006, 03:31 PM

Hooray for catching terrorists and saving lives!
  
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Default 06-05-2006, 04:50 PM

[quote="Eight Ace":b498a]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machette
Fucking "Sun" papers. But it's more than likely that canadians are willingly bending down to give up civil liberties. gg. Also its calgary, 95% of the province are conservatives.
so once again it's not the plotters that are at fault...it's the press and the gullible public, ffs. rolleyes:[/quote:b498a]As usual you didn't understand what I said and totally misinterpreted what I had to say which is a given around here. rolleyes: rolleyes: If you didn't notice my entire post was towards the poll. Better re-read it, if you can..Calgary is known for its conservatism. Will any of my post be understood properly or do I just not understand the conservative mindset? I didn't say jack shit about the plotters.
  
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Default 06-05-2006, 04:52 PM

Has anybody seen Pyro lately? eek:
  
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Default 06-05-2006, 05:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machette
I didn't say jack shit about the plotters.
no, you never do, do you?

everyone except those caught red-handed is to blame according to your view.
  
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Default 06-05-2006, 05:30 PM

Eight ace are you putting words in my mouth, again? I made no apparent comment within this thread about the plotters and nor do I intend to since all it does is make everyone hot headed. You went crazy over my first comment which was based not on the plotters rather than civil rights and you jumped all over it, trying to make a invalid point. And what you are saying now is better put towards ninty not me since he made comments along those lines. I'm attempting to stay out of heated debates in this forum.
  
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Default 06-06-2006, 05:09 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13150516/

ed: . crazy stuff right there guys. These terroists......the balls.. the gaul... annoy: . If this would've went through, damn, i can't hardly even imagine what would've happened
  
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Default 06-06-2006, 06:25 PM

[quote:0cf6a]So many possibilities . . . for courts
Jun. 5, 2006. 10:32 AM
THOMAS WALKOM
NATIONAL COLUMNIST

Suppose, just suppose, that one or more of the 17 charged yesterday with terrorism is innocent.

This is not the common assumption. I suspect most Canadians assume that Ontario was in great danger from terrorists, that police nipped this danger in the bud and that all of the 12 adults and five young people they arrested are guilty.

All of which may be true. Terrorists do exist. There is the terror we don't think about, committed by nation states under the rubric of security sweeps or targeted reprisals. And there is the terror we do think about, the terrorism of misguided individuals, loons, right-wing militias or Al Qaeda and its Islamist acolytes.

Militant Islamists have committed outrages in the United States, Indonesia, Spain and Britain to counter what they see as the crimes of these countries against Muslims. There is no obvious reason to assume that similar criminals won't try the same thing here.

All of which is to say that the Mounties may be absolutely correct when they say they stopped the 17 from using homemade detonators and three tonnes of fertilizer to blow up as yet unspecified targets in southern Ontario.

There may indeed have been a terrorist conspiracy that involved what the RCMP assistant commissioner Mike McDonell yesterday referred to as "training areas," where militants tramped about in big boots, cooked on outdoor barbecues, built bombs and used a wooden door for target practice.

That's the implication from the evidence shown to reporters yesterday: five pairs of boots in camouflage drab, six flashlights, one set of walkie-talkies, one voltmeter, one knife, eight D-cell batteries, a cellphone, a circuit board, a computer hard drive, one barbecue grill, one set of tongs suitable for turning hot dogs, a wooden door with 21 marks on it and a 9-mm handgun.

Or it is possible that the only thing that these bits of evidence prove is that a group of young men went somewhere where they tramped around in big boots, cooked on barbecues, played soldier and generally acted like jerks — which young men are occasionally wont to do.

The three tonnes of ammonium nitrate allegedly purchased was, as McDonell said, three times the amount used in the Oklahoma terror bombing of 1995.

But, as he also said, farmers routinely buy three tonnes of ammonium nitrate "every day." They use it for fertilizer, not bombs.

In short, we don't know much yet about what these men and boys were trying to do. We don't know if this series of arrests, called Operation O-Sage by the Mounties, pre-empted the kind of actions that in the United Kingdom led to last year's bombing of the London subway by otherwise unremarkable young Britons.

That's one possibility. It's certainly the explanation favoured by Prime Minister Stephen Harper, who yesterday praised the police.

Another is that this is a reprise of the infamous 2003 Project Thread fiasco, in which RCMP and immigration officials accused 23 Muslims of terrorism only to acknowledge later that at most the men were guilty of minor immigration fraud.

Still another possibility is that this may turn out to be Canada's version of the 2004 Virginia "paintball" trial, in which one man was sentenced to life and another got 85 years.

In that controversial case (even the presiding judge complained the outcome was unfair), nine Muslim men were convicted of participating in terrorist training — the main evidence being that they had played paintball in the woods outside Washington.

What we do know about Operation O-Sage is that the RCMP, as well as the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, have been tracking the suspects since 2004. We also know that at least some of their neighbours knew police were watching them. Presumably, some of the suspects did, too.

If the alleged conspirators knew they were under surveillance, it seems odd that they continued along merrily with plans to make explosives.

But perhaps they are not bright terrorists. Or perhaps they are not terrorists at all.

With luck, we will get these answers at trial. This time at least, Canada has chosen to deal with alleged terrorists in the proper way, by charging them with criminal offences and allowing the case to come to court — in Canada.

For too long, the government's preferred option was to let others handle our problems. In 2002, CSIS agents escorted alleged Canadian terrorist Mohamed Mansour Jabarah across the border so he could be arrested by the FBI and convicted in a secret trial. Later that year, the RCMP co-operated with the Americans to have them arrest Canadian suspect Maher Arar in New York (he was later transferred to Syria to be tortured).

Five other alleged terrorists are simply being detained without charge under Canada's very elastic immigration act until they can be deported.

So, in this context, the 2004 decision to charge Canadian Mohammad Momin Khawaja for terrorism and yesterday's unrelated decision to charge the 17 are welcome. At least the accused aren't being sent to Syria.

During the next few days, much will be written and broadcast on the 17. Their lives will be re-examined through the prism of the arrests as reporters try to retrace the steps that allegedly led them to violent jihad. Unnamed security sources will leak details designed to bolster the police case. Families and friends will proclaim the innocence of those charged.

Take it all with a grain of salt. We know that police arrested people. We know they seized some materials — all legal — that can be used to make explosives. So far, we don't know much else.[/quote:0cf6a]

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Conten ... rorArrests
  
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Default 06-06-2006, 06:39 PM

Im going to have to agree with Machette on this. Why would anyone give up their own personal liberties so their government can "weed out" terrorists. If a government is as powerful as it claims to be, it shouldn't have to monitor everyone and do the guess and check method.

now, i dont know about the rest of you, but i was born not a US citizen, I had to earn my citizenship the hard way. I am not willing to give up my constitutionally guaranteed rights just for the sake of "homeland security".
  
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Default 06-06-2006, 10:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acideyez
Im going to have to agree with Machette on this. Why would anyone give up their own personal liberties so their government can "weed out" terrorists. If a government is as powerful as it claims to be, it shouldn't have to monitor everyone and do the guess and check method.

now, i dont know about the rest of you, but i was born not a US citizen, I had to earn my citizenship the hard way. I am not willing to give up my constitutionally guaranteed rights just for the sake of "homeland security".
so if these people had gone ahead with their plan as similar people have done in Indonesia, Spain, England etc.
and blown up parliament, beheaded the pm etc. you would be cool with that, and you would be happy with a
"guess and check method" even in the face of further attacks, ok fine.

Goverments should hold referendums and simply ask people "if we just allow terrorist plotters to carry out their
attacks whenever they like, does eveyone promise not to complain afterwards that not enough was done...yes or no"

would that be ok?
  
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Default 06-06-2006, 10:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninty
"The three tonnes of ammonium nitrate allegedly purchased was, as McDonell said,
three times the amount used in the Oklahoma terror bombing of 1995.

But, as he also said, farmers routinely buy three tonnes of ammonium nitrate "every day."
They use it for fertilizer, not bombs."
ahh, that explains it...I foolishly thought these guys were a bunch of
city slickers, I didn't realise they were farmers, problem solved! beer:
  
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Default 06-06-2006, 10:26 PM

[quote="Eight Ace":7dbe4]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acideyez
Im going to have to agree with Machette on this. Why would anyone give up their own personal liberties so their government can "weed out" terrorists. If a government is as powerful as it claims to be, it shouldn't have to monitor everyone and do the guess and check method.

now, i dont know about the rest of you, but i was born not a US citizen, I had to earn my citizenship the hard way. I am not willing to give up my constitutionally guaranteed rights just for the sake of "homeland security".
so if these people had gone ahead with their plan as similar people have done in Indonesia, Spain, England etc.
and blown up parliament, beheaded the pm etc. you would be cool with that, and you would be happy with a
"guess and check method" even in the face of further attacks, ok fine.

Goverments should hold referendums and simply ask people "if we just allow terrorist plotters to carry out their
attacks whenever they like, does eveyone promise not to complain afterwards that not enough was done...yes or no"

would that be ok?[/quote:7dbe4]

no no, you misunderstood. I ment that they shouldn't monitor everyone, and shouldn't use the guess and check method. If they are as powerful and have as much "intelligence" as they clame to have, then they shouldnt have to guess.
  
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Default 06-07-2006, 01:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acideyez
I ment that they shouldn't monitor everyone, and shouldn't use the guess and check method.
If they are as powerful and have as much "intelligence" as they clame to have, then they shouldnt have to guess.
how then would you like to see all this intelligence gathered?, without
anyone "giving up their own personal liberties" in any way I mean.
  
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