[Jerry]

Rommel, the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima was not a battle! The question was asking for a battle, and I don't think Dropping Atomic Bombs on civilians is much a battle. I would have to say Omaha Beach was the bloodiest, because GORE was written all over the sands. Lots of the soldiers had no chance against the heavy fire and mortors landing everywhere. Oh and sorry if I offended you in some way but the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki terrifies me because it was such a violent act of hell. If you've studied Japanese Culture, you would know exactly what I mean. Just you phrasing it as a battle makes me sick. Those poor Japanese Civilians had no chance for shit.

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"Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to Berlin, I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler. Just like I'd shoot a snake!"
- General George S. Patton, Jr (addressing to his troops before Operation Overlord, June 5, 1944)

[Von Paulus]

Stailingrad, was the bloodiest battle of the war, Men were hacking each other to pieces with shovels for christ's sake...I'm sorry some of you Americans can't accept that seeing as you have probably only formed your opinions based on the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan, but to get just a glimpse, I mean JUST a glimpse of what those poor bastards went through at Stalingrad, go out and hire that movie (Stalingrad), It's in German I know and the subtitles are pretty small, but I'm sure you'll be able to manage...Anyhow, what Enemy at the Gates like, It hasn't hit our shores yet...

[Recycled Spooge]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gen. Rommel:
I'm reading a book about the battle of Stalingrad...but I just started it and have not even gotten into the actual battle. But I looked in some of my other books and I found a few figures.

German Deaths: At least 247,000 Germans died. And Two Rumanian, one Italian and one Hungarian army were destroyed.

I couldn't find Russian numbers..but I'll be looking.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I bet it's a lot, since they lost a total of about 20,000,000 people in the war.



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[Jerry]

The damn civilians were not fighting BACK!! Yes the mission was a battle but the outcome was not! Do you not recognize that women and children weren't the ones firing flak, it was the Military. The Military of course lost plenty of men but not as many as Civilian Casualty. Here is the exact Military Definition of "Battle":


bat·tle (btl)
n.

An encounter between opposing forces: an important battle in the Pacific campaign.

I don't think the civilians fit in a description of "opposing forces".

[Jerry]

Oh by the way, I don't want to start an arguement here. I enjoy these forums and do not plan on holding grudges on anyone here , so let's quit the bitchen and not let the tension rise because I sure don't want it to. Thanks.

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"Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to Berlin, I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler. Just like I'd shoot a snake!"
- General George S. Patton, Jr (addressing to his troops before Operation Overlord, June 5, 1944)

[Recycled Spooge]

Yeah, the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki with nukes were not battles. It's like saying that exterminating people in Auschwitz was a battle.

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[This message has been edited by Recycled Spooge (edited June 24, 2001).]

[Wolfshook]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Von Paulus:
Stailingrad, was the bloodiest battle of the war, Men were hacking each other to pieces with shovels for christ's sake...I'm sorry some of you Americans can't accept that seeing as you have probably only formed your opinions based on the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan, but to get just a glimpse, I mean JUST a glimpse of what those poor bastards went through at Stalingrad, go out and hire that movie (Stalingrad), It's in German I know and the subtitles are pretty small, but I'm sure you'll be able to manage...Anyhow, what Enemy at the Gates like, It hasn't hit our shores yet...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Well, first off, the close combat with entrenching tools, and anything else they could get ahold of, was during the entire Eastern Front war, not just Stalingrad. The Eastern Front was brutal, it wasn't just one city, where the fighting suddenly turned bestial.

Again, we see a European who thinks all of us learned about ww2, from SPR. Give us some credit, man, your sounding just a tad high handed.

I've seen Stalingrad...quite a few times, in the original German, with subtitles. Again, Europeans aren't the only ones who can watch movies with subtitles.

Calm the attitude down, though, and I might like you. However, insulting all Americans won't make you many friends. I happen to know a lot of stupid and intelligent people...who come from all over the world.

Enemy at the Gates, was ok...nothing spectacular. A little too much romance, and not enough down and dirty, gritty realism.

IMO

BTW, I'm American.


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34th SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Landstorm Nederland

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue"

[Jerry]

Actually it was a battle but not a military battle. :P It was the battle of humanity. Anybody ever read Night by Elie Wiseal? (sorry if I slaughtered the spelling!). It is an excellent book and must be read.

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"Sure, we want to go home. We want this war over with. The quickest way to get it over with is to go get the bastards who started it. The quicker they are whipped, the quicker we can go home. The shortest way home is through Berlin and Tokyo. And when we get to Berlin, I am personally going to shoot that paper hanging son-of-a-bitch Hitler. Just like I'd shoot a snake!"
- General George S. Patton, Jr (addressing to his troops before Operation Overlord, June 5, 1944)

[Von Paulus]

SUPREME COMMANDER TO 6th ARMY, JANUARY 24, 1943

SURRENDER IS FORBIDDEN stop 6 ARMY WILL HOLD THEIR POSITIONS TO THE LAST MAN AND THE LAST ROUND AND BY THEIR HEROIC ENDURANCE WILL MAKE AN UNFORGETTABLE CONTRIBUTION TOWARDS THE ESTABLISHMENT OF A DEFENSIVE FRONT AND THE SALVATION OF THE WESTERN WORLD stop

- Adolph Hitler


"I was horrified when I saw the map. We're quite alone, without any help from the outside. Hitler has left us in the lurch. Whether this letter gets away depends whether we still hold the airfield. We are lying in the north of the city. The men in my battery already suspect the truth, but they aren't so exactly informed as I am. So this is what the end looks like. No, we're not going to be captured. When Stalingrad falls you will hear and read about it. Then you will know that I shall not return."

----------------------------------------------

"Of the division there are only 69 men still fit for action. Beyer is still alive, and Hartlieb as well. Little Degen has lost both his arms; I expect he will soon be in Germany. Life is finished for him, too. Get him to tell you the details which you people think worth knowing. D. has given up hope. I should like to know what he thinks of the situation and it's consequences. All we have left are two Machine-guns and 400 rounds. And then a mortar and 10 bombs. Except for that all we have are hunger and fatigue."

----------------------------------------------

"My hands are done for, and have been ever since the beginning of December. The little finger on my left hand is missing and - what's
even worse - the three middle fingers on my right one are frozen. I can only hold my mug with my thumb and little finger. I'm pretty helpless; only when a man haslost any fingers does he see how much he needs them for the smallest jobs. The best thing I can do with my little finger is shoot with it. My hands are finished."

- All from 'Last Letters from Stalingrad' by A.G Powell, Published by Methuen.


Stalingrad was the watershed of the war. No other battle - possibly in history - has compelled the attention of the world to such a degree of fascination. The Soviet plan to trap and then crush the IV Army at Stalingrad was masterful and awesome; over 1,000,000 men were to swoop down on the German forces, cut them off, and then, unit by unit, annihalate them. And the plan's execution was no less imposing; when it was all over, the once-proud army of General Paulus, at its peak 330,000 men strong, had been utterly liquidated, and Stalingrad, scene of the wars MOST VICIOUS combat, was once more in Russian hands.

If you've bothered to read this far, I congratulate you...

[Dickonwheels]

diepe was a blood bath. but I dont know if i spelt it right

[Gen. Rommel]

It is considered a battle because the Japs did fire Flak guns and had fighters in the air during the bombing. The Enola Gay didn't just go off by itself and bomb the city, there were tons more planes to bomb the city after the BIG one fell. So, the bombers and figters, and flak did engage in a battle. Battles do not only take place on the ground my friend.

[Wolfshook]

True, true. The Japanese did have fighters in the air. They just couldn't get to it in time, and what would they have done anyway? Not much...

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34th SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Landstorm Nederland

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue"

[Wolfshook]

LOL! I could have swore you were European? Maybe I saw Austria?

My apologies, good sir.

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34th SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Landstorm Nederland

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue"

[Von Paulus]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfshook:

Well, first off, the close combat with entrenching tools, and anything else they could get ahold of, was during the entire Eastern Front war, not just Stalingrad. The Eastern Front was brutal, it wasn't just one city, where the fighting suddenly turned bestial.

Again, we see a European who thinks all of us learned about ww2, from SPR. Give us some credit, man, your sounding just a tad high handed.

I've seen Stalingrad...quite a few times, in the original German, with subtitles. Again, Europeans aren't the only ones who can watch movies with subtitles.

Calm the attitude down, though, and I might like you. However, insulting all Americans won't make you many friends. I happen to know a lot of stupid and intelligent people...who come from all over the world.

Enemy at the Gates, was ok...nothing spectacular. A little too much romance, and not enough down and dirty, gritty realism.

IMO

BTW, I'm American.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You, my friend, must not be very good at Geography, Incase you didn't realise, I'll educate you...Have a look at that big old Map of the world and have a good look at the southern hemisphere...see Australia, all the way down there, European you say!, Well, I'm suppose the next thing you'll be telling me is
BallisticWookie is from Asia.

I'm calmed down, you appear to be a well educated (at least in Military History...less so in geography!) and you sound quite nice so I'll leave it there, just one thing though, what did you mean by "Again, another European" or did you mean "Australian" ; )

-Ciao

[Recycled Spooge]

I found the Soviet death toll at Stalingrad. It's at least 1,000,000. Dead bodies are still being found by farmers.

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