[c312]

I'm sorry but I can't imagine how the US Government would in any way attempt to assist in what happened on 9/11 no matter what "facts" you think you have found.

[Tripper]

London bombings were probably just a few local british muslims that joined in the fight. Whose to say they have any connection to al queda at all? They probably just hear all about the war on terror on the news and decide they want to be a part of this holy war.

[ninty]

Originally Posted by c312

I'm sorry but I can't imagine how the US Government would in any way attempt to assist in what happened on 9/11 no matter what "facts" you think you have found.

Thats fine.

What about from people that were there and people in high ranking government positions?

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/07/321879.shtml
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6679
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/read ... tNum=99739
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/07/321476.shtml
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3358
http://www.arcticbeacon.citymaker.com/a ... /29242.htm
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=6964
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/read ... Num=101210
http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3259

[c312]

I know that you have all those articles and all that, but how can you be sure that all of those people are telling the truth? I know some of the sources may be reliable, but what if the person is just plain lying to get attention. No one in the government is evil enough to do something like that. I don't care how much you hate George Bush, the man is not evil. An evil man would never do the things he has done or the way he recognized handicapped kids at a tball game on Sunday.

I'm not saying your beleifs are stupid or anything, I just can't imagine someone, especially George Bush doing something like that just so they could invade Afghanistan or Iraq, it doesn't make sense logistically or morally.

[ninty]

Why would a firefighter who rescued people on 9/11 lie about this?

Anyway, Bush isn't "Evil", he's really a puppet. The administration has a plan, and their executing it to perfection.

Ever read any of PNAC's stuff? Outlines pretty much everything that has happened so far:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/Rebui ... fenses.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_fo ... an_Century

I'm sure Hitler went to TBall games. People liked him too.

[c312]

who knows why he would lie, there are many reasons. ie: he wasn't actually a firefighter, he has emotionally disturbed by the day, he wanted fame

I think you are bordering on paranoid with all of these things you are reading on the internet. It doesn't matter to me that you want to think up these scenarios and research them and use them to hate America but I just can't buy into it, sorry. I think its very highly unlikely that America is a new nazi germany.

You'll be the first one I admit i was wrong to if we ever start to become evil in that sense.

[ninty]

It's on video. The firefighters name is Louie Cacchioli. I'll try to find it. He made comments on the day of 9/11 that there were explosives in the towers as if they were meant to bring the towers down. There's no real fame with this.

It's not like I jsut decided to read this stuff and today i'm a conspiracy theorist. I've been doing this for a couple years now.

[Johnj]

I don't think he's being paranoid at all. You don't learn how to fly airliners at top speed and perform precise navigation in a couple of lessons in a Cessna.

[ninty]

Here all i'm focusing on is the reports of controlled demolitions. There is a pile more evidence, but for me to write it all up would take literally weeks.

A little fact for you is that only three steel buildings have ever collapsed from fire in the history of the world. WTC1 WTC2 and WTC7. The owner of WTC7 also said that they "pulled it" on a PBS program. He said it was determined that the building was unsafe so they put explosives in it to bring the building down. I would think that it would take more than a couple hours to set all the explosives. Usually takes weeks or careful planning when they bring buildings down. Anyway, the official report says that WTC7 collapsed because of fire. So someone's story is wrong.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE ... losion.wmv

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE ... osions.mov

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE ... ness.2.wmv

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE ... ness.1.wmv

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGE ... snbc.2.wmv

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_firefighters.mp3

The above mp3 is edited from the radio transmissions of North Brunswick Volunteer Fire/Ladder Company #3 on 9/11. The mp3 begins with the collapse of the south tower, @3:23 there are three beeps - this signifies that time has moved on roughly 20 minutes to the collapse of the north tower.

Numerous reports of explosions are made in the transmissions...

I can't find the video, but here is a transcript of what Louie Cacchioli said:

[quote:c7934]fireman2: We made it outside, we made it about a block.
fireman1: We made it at least 2 blocks.
fireman2: 2 blocks.
fireman1: and we started runnin'
fireman2: poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch-poch
fireman1: Floor by floor it started poppin' out ..
fireman2: It was as if as if they had detonated, det..
fireman1: yea detonated yea
fireman2: as if they had planned to take down a building,
boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom-boom ...
fireman1: All the way down, I was watchin it, and runnin'
fireman3: Just ran up west street.
fireman1: Then you just sort of ... this cloud of s___
just chasin' you down
fireman4: Where did you go?
fireman3: Just ran up west street.
fireman2: You couldn't outrun it.
fireman1: You couldn't outrun it.
fireman4: So what did you do?
fireman2: I jumped behind a battalion car,
I hid under the car, I was waitin' to die.[/quote:c7934]

And look here for an excellent article on Louie Cacchioli

http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/ar ... /29548.htm

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/TooEXCLUSIVE/northtower_jetktla1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/TooEXCLUSIVE/northtower_collapse_close1.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/TooEXCLUSIVE/northtower_jetktla2.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v521/TooEXCLUSIVE/southtower_jet2.jpg[/img]

There are better pics than that but for some reason I can't find them.

Anyway, I know i'm not going to change anyones mind here. Your definetly not going to change mine. I know what I know, and I'm glad that I do. I would hope that the US government is honest and all nice like you say, but they've already proved they aren't...WMD anyone?

See you on the other side.

[ninty]

Originally Posted by Johnj

I don't think he's being paranoid at all. You don't learn how to fly airliners at top speed and perform precise navigation in a couple of lessons in a Cessna.

What do you think happened, Johnj?

[c312]

The administration was told that their were WMDs so that's what they beleived. You can get into whether or not it was a lie, but that is partisan politics more than facts

I don't see what the pictures are meant to be showing and to tell you the truth, you're right, you're not gonna change my mind and I'm not gonna change yours it just seems weird to me because you are the first person I have encountered that really beleives all this stuff and that America is a bunch of lying manipulative bastards; it's just all very strange for me.

[ninty]

Originally Posted by c312

The administration was told that their were WMDs so that's what they beleived. You can get into whether or not it was a lie, but that is partisan politics more than facts

So shouldn't someone be held responsible for their mistake?

[quote:d4810]
I don't see what the pictures are meant to be showing and to tell you the truth, you're right, you're not gonna change my mind and I'm not gonna change yours it just seems weird to me because you are the first person I have encountered that really beleives all this stuff and that America is a bunch of lying manipulative bastards; it's just all very strange for me.[/quote:d4810]
What about if I said many of the hijackers were alive?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 559151.stm

It's unfortunate. People call the US media left wing, but if they were truly left wing, they'd probably show some of these articles.

Maybe they'd show you the second plane impact in slow motion. There's a lot to learn from watching it in slo mo, trust me. It seems they'll give slow mo replays of slam dunks and car crashes, but when it comes down to it, the real stuff they just skip over.

If you happen to ahve any 9/11 DVD's or anything, watch the impact frame by frame. You might be suprised at what you see.

Anyway, the pictures show explosives being discharged. Thats why many people said they heard three explosions and then the building came down. The building was brought down from detonation charges, not fire.

[Johnj]

I don't know what happened, I can only guess. Get Flight Simulator and fly a 757 out of Logan and see if you can make a full speed turning crash into a target like the WTC. At least the only vid I saw of a plane going in showed it flying with one wing higher than the other indicating that the plane wasn't lined up and flying a straight path into the tower.

[ninty]

Yes, the plane was banking and the impact formed had the right wing higher than the left. I have some high res photos of flight 175 from quite a distance, but it shows the underside of the plane. I'm not sure if the plane banked like that because it was turning, or if the plane was going more or less straight and then banked a bit to the left.

Anyway, the pentagon story seems stranger to me. Apparently the plane did a 330 degree turn at 530 MPH then was flown into the building 2 feet above the ground at max speed.

Flight 77 was piloted by Hani Hanjour. I watched a documentary called "lose change" where they interviewed the owner of the flight school Hani Hanjour came to practice at in August before sept 11. The guy there said his skills while in flight were below average to average and he could not land the plane.

Also the official autopsy on Flight 77 concluded that there were no Arabs on board the plane.

http://www.sierratimes.com/03/07/02/article_tro.htm

Not sure if this is appropriate to ask or not, but didn't you vote republican?

Maybe I just assumed you did.

[Jimbo@]

Hey ninty9 where can I get The BBC's series "The Power of Nightmares". can I download it from kazaa or from any site?