Minuteman what are your thoughts - Page 4

Bleuachdu · 05-19-2005, 10:10 AM

[url:97da5]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolationism[/url:97da5]

rolleyes: hake: rolleyes:

If we ever declare English as the official language of the country, then I'd agree that immigrants should have to learn the language. Until then, I don't believe forcing English upon anyone is a very prudent move. That said, I don’t think we should ever declare an official language. Not only does it go against the founding principles of this country, it also would promote the trend of globalization. Many of you who claim immigrants “ruin our economy” should be concerned about the economic implications of globalization rather than Mexicans “stealing” US jobs.

Johnj · 05-19-2005, 01:09 PM

Mexicans did not "steal' American jobs. Illegal aliens will work for lower wages, causing those people that pay the wages to offer less and less, untill the wages are too low to make ends meet for most Americans. My nephew who is a dry waller by trade can no longer work here in the Kansas City area because the prevailing wage for a dry waller is around $8.00 an hour. It used to be $18.00. His rent didn't go down. His car payment didn't go down. Food prices didn't go down. Why is it so hard to understand that unrestricted immergration is bad.

The president (and his daddy) did more to "steal" American jobs than any Mexican did.

rdeyes · 05-19-2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnj

Mexicans did not "steal' American jobs. Illegal aliens will work for lower wages, causing those people that pay the wages to offer less and less, untill the wages are too low to make ends meet for most Americans. My nephew who is a dry waller by trade can no longer work here in the Kansas City area because the prevailing wage for a dry waller is around $8.00 an hour. It used to be $18.00. His rent didn't go down. His car payment didn't go down. Food prices didn't go down. Why is it so hard to understand that unrestricted immergration is bad.

The president (and his daddy) did more to "steal" American jobs than any Mexican did.

good post. +1

Bleuachdu · 05-19-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnj

Mexicans did not "steal' American jobs. Illegal aliens will work for lower wages, causing those people that pay the wages to offer less and less, untill the wages are too low to make ends meet for most Americans. My nephew who is a dry waller by trade can no longer work here in the Kansas City area because the prevailing wage for a dry waller is around $8.00 an hour. It used to be $18.00. His rent didn't go down. His car payment didn't go down. Food prices didn't go down. Why is it so hard to understand that unrestricted immergration is bad.

The president (and his daddy) did more to "steal" American jobs than any Mexican did.

congratulations you missed my point entirely

Johnj · 05-19-2005, 05:07 PM

[quote:0c12c]If we ever declare English as the official language of the country, then I'd agree that immigrants should have to learn the language. Until then, I don't believe forcing English upon anyone is a very prudent move. That said, I don’t think we should ever declare an official language. Not only does it go against the founding principles of this country, it also would promote the trend of globalization. Many of you who claim immigrants “ruin our economy” should be concerned about the economic implications of globalization rather than Mexicans “stealing” US jobs.[/quote:0c12c]

I believe your point would Balkanize this country more than help it. Americas strength is that it is a melting pot. People from different cultures come here and assimilate into our population. Parts of the different cultures are absorbed into our culture. Language is how that assimilation occurs.

Maplegyver · 05-19-2005, 05:11 PM

assimilation owns.

TiberiusAD · 05-19-2005, 05:31 PM

The way I see it is both John and Blue are right in a way.

I agree with Blue that we should not force our language or culture onto those who come to our country & John's story about job availibillity is very true all over the country.

But here's my take....

English is a fundemental piece of working and living in the US. We should be helping these people to learn our language, I learned German when I was in Germany...not because I had to, hell they speak English as well, but because it is the language of the land and to best communicate with natives, I should use the native tounge.
I also don't agree with your fears of globalization, while I do understand them, it is the future of human existance on this planet. Eventually we will no longer fight over government, gods, or liberties.... optamistic I know, but it is our best shot of out-living the planet. (By that I mean a broad sence of unification, not the specifics of trade laws)

It is not the fault of the immegrant to accept less pay for work, it is the fault of the contractors and local law enforcement, it is the fault of the local ELECTED government officials and the bussiness owner in America.
Until we as a people or as a government accept and abide the law, we have no one to blame but ourselves for loosing our own jobs. Of course, why cast blame? Why not instead fix the problem at it source...which I imagine I have a very different idea of how to do that than you do, lol.

Stammer · 05-19-2005, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiberiusAD

I also don't agree with your fears of globalization, while I do understand them, it is the future of human existance on this planet. Eventually we will no longer fight over government, gods, or liberties.... optamistic I know, but it is our best shot of out-living the planet. (By that I mean a broad sence of unification, not the specifics of trade laws)

rock:

Bleuachdu · 05-20-2005, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnj

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bleuachdu

If we ever declare English as the official language of the country, then I'd agree that immigrants should have to learn the language. Until then, I don't believe forcing English upon anyone is a very prudent move. That said, I don’t think we should ever declare an official language. Not only does it go against the founding principles of this country, it also would promote the trend of globalization. Many of you who claim immigrants “ruin our economy” should be concerned about the economic implications of globalization rather than Mexicans “stealing” US jobs.

I believe your point would Balkanize this country more than help it. Americas strength is that it is a melting pot. People from different cultures come here and assimilate into our population. Parts of the different cultures are absorbed into our culture. Language is how that assimilation occurs.

Assimilation is neither a hallmark nor a desirable quality of diversity. Instead, embracing foreign culture and recognizing what separates ourselves from others is what we should strive for. Assimilation may naturally follow, however it shouldn't be forced via language restrictions or anything similar.

That said, you and Tiberius still missed my point. My point was less about language and more about globalization. I should make it clear that I am a proponent of globalization. I realize that it is inevitable. I also believe that in the long term it will have a very positive effect on our nation. However, I think that the short term initial effects will have a negative impact on our economy. These impacts will likely include a leveling out of the American standard of living, a weaker job market, and inflation. We're already beginning to see such things, with the weakening of the dollar vs. foreign currency.

What you need to realize is that the demolition of local labor markets is nothing new. It's impossible to blame an immigrant for wanting a better life and taking extremely low pay. If anyone is at fault, its the American citizens who hire illegals and pay them unfair wages. Don't get me wrong; I'm a bloodsucking capitalist too. I just believe that playing by the rules can lead to wealth too.

Sgt>Stackem · 05-20-2005, 07:58 AM

if you want to live here you should learn the language, its simple. If I went to france (fat chance) Id learn French. i see no reason to have all the govt offices learn a second language just because these people are too lazy to learn the common language of the country. i dont want to and am not going to learn Spanish because all of these people come here ILLEGALLY. Screw them. learn the language or get the fuck out. put .50 cals at the borders and that will stop the illegal flow. Coming into this country illegally is an act of war. We shouldnt change the country so criminals can live here happily

Short Hand · 05-20-2005, 08:28 AM

Canada = French & English.

Swill · 06-25-2005, 01:12 AM

I think illegal immigration is bs... If they want in the country they must earn it... Same with any americans trying to move to another country...

Every country has their own laws... You better obey them or get the fuck out...

eeves · 06-29-2005, 05:19 PM

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":cca23]because all of these people come here ILLEGALLY. [/quote:cca23]

oOo:

c312 · 07-20-2005, 09:59 PM

illegal immigrants cost our healthcare systems billions every year and deprive American citizens of healthcare they deserve by forcing bankrupted hospitals to close.

They take jobs that americans could be doing and therefore create stagnation of the unemployed....

illegal immigrants are bad for the United States

Zoner · 07-21-2005, 08:11 AM

You dug this thread up after almost a month to state the glaringly obvious?

Nice work. annoy: