[Ydiss]

Besides, like I said before, it's all about enjoying a game. Some get enjoyment out of beating others, some get enjoyment simply from the taking part.

I would admit that I do enjoy beating other players, but then I also like playing it because no one game is the same and there are many situations and events that transpire to make me laugh or feel good.

If you don't get any of that then why do you play games?

I can see it's not to be the best (because we are all the best aren't we?) It can't be to enjoy the situations becasue you've done them all already (Man you must play a lot, then).

So why do you play it?

[jonesy-the-cat]

Anytime your actions affect the outcome, skill comes into play. Conversely, the only time skill is not involved is if you can't make mistakes. Example: the card game 'war' In that game, the only way to affect the outcome would be to cheat, e.g. stack the deck.

Anything in real life requires skills. And skills are developed. Infants are born with almost no skill at all. Whatever activities you participate in, usually ones that interest you or are forced upon you, are ones you will develop skill in. In fact, almost any activity requires a set of multiple skills. Real life war, video games, baseball, playing piano, conversing with people, all require skills. Same goes for MoH. I think it requires more skills than Q or UT, which makes it more fun for me. But even those games require a variety of skills, and there are many different levels one can attain in each skill. The sum of these skills determines your ability at the game. Two players could both be equally good, yet for different reasons.

Example: I became very good at ping-pong. I learned it from Chinese kids, so I play Chinese style (holding paddle like chop sticks). Ping-pong was very popular in my school. It came down to 3 players at the top, myself included. I would almost always just barely beat player 2. Player 2 would almost always beat player 3. And player 3 would almost always beat me. The thing is, all 3 of us were never there at the same time (large school). So player 3 simply would not believe that I beat player 2. Yet there was something about our different styles that made this so.

Also, I am an avid chess player. In chess, one player, such as Karpov, could actually be better at strategy then Kasparov, but Kasparov better at tactics. There are also 'will to win', stamina, and many other skills invloved. The sum total of all involved skills makes Kasparov at least marginally more successful head-to-head with Karpov.

What makes MoH so much more fun than Q or UT is the added skills demanded by the different rules. In the future there will no doubt be games that are even more realistic and make MoH seem boring.

[buddha]

werd..

[SS.SGW-Siggi]

How could you possibly be "confident" you could beat me? Are you psychic? Or do you think you are so 'good' at the game that you could believe anyone beatable, no matter what their ability at it? Lol. Sounds like you take this way too seriously.

To answer your question...I play it because it has me in stitches more often than not. Il2 I play seriously because a) it's a remarkably accurate simulation and b) the rules we play by simulate real life involvement in air combat. MoH is a bit of light side-play for me.

------------------

[Ydiss]

...

You need to write a dissertation on the mastery of contradiction, Siggi. You have it down to an art.

Btw, I don't think I am better than you, but from the way you talk I am confident that I would be - Whether I take the game seriously or not.

Contradiction number one: 'Or do you think you are so 'good' at the game that you could believe anyone beatable, no matter what their ability at it?'

So ability is a question now? I thought no one had any ability...

Contradiction number two: 'a) it's a remarkably accurate simulation and b) the rules we play by simulate real life involvement in air combat. '

You tear the game apart exactly because it is NOT realistic. The fact that you use the word 'simulation' is your only saving grace.

I would agree that there are a few players out there that have learnt just about everything that the demo has to offer already. But I do not agree that everyone has.

I'd disagree completely that you have learnt every single situation and permutation of the game so far, though.

That's some extensive playing there, bud. Have you played everyone that there is to play already? And fought each and every one of them in every inch of the two maps, each having each and every combination of weapon in each of those million situations?

Wow.

Oh, and I've beaten players who have much better ping than me. And have been beaten (in other games) by players who have much worse ping than me.

I saw a player in MOH the other day who had 15 ping and didn't have a clue.

I am a better player than that person. Simple really. I don't feel big because of it, it's just a fact.

I get off much more when I play MoH from a decent team-effort than any single act of my own.

I can imagine a conversation you would have before a game now...

'Hey, let's go play Medal of Honor and get an even amount of kills as everyone else!'

'Cool! yeh, let's go! Sounds great!'

You seem bored of the game already, and it hasn't even come out yet. Why bother playing it?

It's a sad fact, but you are the kind of person who's knee-jerk reaction (or should I say wrist-jerk?) is to brand someone a cheat just because they beat you easilly.

[The_Guy]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SS.SGW-Siggi:


THAT EVEN A KID CAN MASTER IT AND COMPETE WITH AN ADULT.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems to me that you are underestimating kids Siggi. Kids can also be good at games, no matter the code.

[This message has been edited by The_Guy (edited January 04, 2002).]

[Sniper_X]

well done loved story i couldn't agree anymore no one could cheat if anyone wanted to cheat it would take a while to hack in the game and it takes a long time i bet

[Tyler Durden]

I think the most important thing when making a game, is making sure no one can cheat. WHich is infact very very hard, but im sure if it was made into the engine of the game, then it could work. Like if you change anything then the game wont work.. THAT would be cool !

------------------

"So I guess I changed some. Sometimes I wonder if I've changed so much my wife is even gonna recognize me whenever it is I get back to her. And how I'll ever be able to, to tell her about days like today. Ah, Ryan...I don't know anything about Ryan and I don't care. The man means nothing to me. He's just a name. But if you know, going on to Ramelle and finding him so he can go home, if that earns me the right to get back to my wife, well then, that's my mission."

[SS.SGW-Siggi]

Contradiction number one: 'Or do you think you are so 'good' at the game that you could believe anyone beatable, no matter what their ability at it?'

So ability is a question now? I thought no one had any ability...

I based my question on your criteria, obviously. Either that or I'm brain damaged. Sheesh.

Contradiction number two: 'a) it's a remarkably accurate simulation and b) the rules we play by simulate real life involvement in air combat. '

Talking about Ilyushin2 here, not MoH.


------------------

[SPRAYnPRAY]

I resemble that remark. Excellent post Jonesy.

[SS.SGW-Siggi]

"Secondly, you see you're doing it again. One minute you come out with a statement that makes me think that perhaps you are an experienced and decent player (at any game) but then you go and ruin it."

Allow me to translate that...when I say something you agree with I'm an experienced and decent player. When I say something that gets up your nose I'm just a sore loser.

Mmm. UYA.

So if it wasn't an aimbot I saw these miracle snipers using, what was it? I'm to believe that these guys can run around, zoomed-in, and hit moving targets consistently? Can they also nail jello to the ceiling of a moving train? Snort. Your faith, belief or whatever you want to call it, that all these super-snipers are running on pure skill is disturbing. Are you a born-again-christian by any chance? They think Jesus is back on earth performing miracles too.

You are correct in one of your half-assertions...I am a VERY experienced gamer, and I can sniff-out bad code and cheats as easily as a bloodhound would smell half a pound of bear-shit stuffed up it's nose.

When will you understand that a human being can do with the code only what is PHYSICALLY POSSIBLE TO DO WITH THE CODE? Why do you insist that a finite code is capable of infinite permutations? If code was as variable as real life it would be called the frigging MATRIX and we'd all be laying in baths of jello fragging the fuck out of each other 24/7.

IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO CONSISTENTLY SNIPE A MOVING TARGET WHILST MOVING YOURSELF, END OF STORY. IT CAN BE DONE BY LUCK BUT ANYONE DOING IT CONSISTENTLY, SHOT AFTER SHOT, IS FUCKING WELL CHEATING! NO HUMAN BEING POSSESSES THE ABILITY TO OVERCOME THE PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS OF THE BLOODY CODE, PERIOD!

If it could be done most players would be able to do it. Have you tried it? Do you really think ANY combination of human abilities would overcome the obstacles presented by the crude code in the game? A zoomed-in image with almost zero field of view and no depth. Zero peripheral vision. Magnified jerking and shaking as one runs. Target moving and jerking. No way to calculate lead because the code doesn't have a ballistics model any more complex than a laser line-of-sight. And other guys shooting and grenading the shite out of you, strange this super-sniper is somehow able to dodge the incoming shit-storm long enough to make his kill. And you think some players are able to overcome that? Large numbers judging by what I've seen.

Yeah, it's a pretty tall order by anyone's standard. Ever heard of Occum's Razor?

When I was in the FL we were asked what we wanted to be. Almost to a man every one of us replied "Sniper!" The NCO's laughed, and I still chuckle when I think back on it.

Consider then the reality...young kids dreaming of being The Hidden Death. But the code in their interface with the dream is crude. Snipers die fast because the game can't give them what a real environment gives a sniper...the only way to go super is to cheat.

So they cheat, and that's what I've been seeing. I actually saw a sniper jump from a window, fire as he was falling and hit his target. Skill? Please, don't insult my intelligence. What's left of it anyway.

On to the other stuff...why is GameSpy so bad? All it does is list available servers, same as The All Seeing Eye I presume?

------------------

[Hannover]

Hello all,

I'd just like to say that while I was playing last night, I had Team Fortress flashbacks.

As I walked down the street in The Hunt, I was being sniped by a dude in the second storey of a building, while a medic...uh, I mean a soldier with a SMG shot at me. Someone also threw a grenade into the street.

It's as if I was trying to cross the bridge in 2fort4! Oh, and talk about TF snipers....I knew a guy that was so good that he could just about shut down all enemy offense, but luckily we were in the same clan. =)

Cheers,
Hannover

[SoLiDUS]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SS.SGW-Siggi:
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO CONSISTENTLY SNIPE A MOVING TARGET WHILST MOVING YOURSELF, END OF STORY. IT CAN BE DONE BY LUCK BUT ANYONE DOING IT CONSISTENTLY, SHOT AFTER SHOT, IS FUCKING WELL CHEATING! NO HUMAN BEING POSSESSES THE ABILITY TO OVERCOME THE PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS OF THE BLOODY CODE, PERIOD!
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

NEO can

------------------

Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz (1646-1716)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He is often described as the last universal genius: a thinker whose range extended to all that was known in his day.

" Although the whole of this life were said to be nothing but a dream and the physical world nothing but a phantasm, I should call this dream or phantasm real enough, if, using reason well, we were never deceived by it. "<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[SS.SGW-Siggi]

Yeah? What hack does the wannabe use?

------------------

[Ydiss]

I said I have seen it done, and with a consistency that becomes of practice (and er, I also said that a lot of moving-moving sniping is luck)

I didn't say I've seen someone do it every shot. If you have then perhaps you should stop running out into the street

In fact I saw Rigz do a moving target snipe, while moving himself, just now.

You said that it's impossible, unless one cheats. I denied that.

You write well, but read badly.

Your statements about your own experience (CS et al) were the ones that made me think you could at least say something to back up your claims. That was when I actually thought you made some sense.

I didn't agree or disagree with them, because they are claims, until I see other-wise.

But they were a lot more rational ones than 'No one can beat the code, man'.

I don't try to, I just have fun playing the game. If you want to examine the code and work it all out that way, that's your perogative, mate.

You still haven't given us your name Did you want to play us or not?

All Seeing Eye is much more professional than Gamespy. By downloading it you'd be doing yourself a favour.

Main reasons why ASE is better:

* Scans all servers correctly, unlike Gspy which sometimes leaves player lists blank (more often than not actually).

* Has a much more intuitive user-interface for arranging server types and game types. Updates much faster, too.

* Buddy list that is always on, and searches all servers for the name constantly (unless you chose not to) - What this means is that you don't have to search the servers for that pokey little dot that Gspy gives you to show a buddy playing. Plus, as ASE scans properly you'll never miss a buddy.

* Each server's nationality is marked, be it UK or Argentina.

* Very competent filtration system. The country, players, ping, bots etc etc can all be filtered in, or out. Want a european server? Easy. Want an Albanian one? Just as easy.

There's more to it, but those are the main reasons I prefer it over Gspy. I'd download it as soon as you could.

You don't have to You can carry on using Gspy if you like, not my loss.