[Johnj]

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

i agree we dont belong in iraq as well. but for being in saudi arabia just cause they asked...that may be true, but i think its unfair for us to baby one of the worlds wealthiest nations when we wont send effective defense forces in africa, south america and other places that truly need our help. we're in saudi arabia because they buy our troops like mercenaries. they have money, they have oil, and so we post troops to protect it.

We don't send defense forces to countries in Africa because they don't want us to. Remember what happened when we tried to help the Somalians. As to South America we do have troops in several countries down there working with their troops in drug interdiction operations and the like. Other countries like Venezuela don't want us in there because they find it easier to blame all their problems on the USA.

[Chappy]

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

chappy - you dont even know what imperialism is, you fucking twat, so stfu and eat a bucket of man sauce, you cock hungry faggot.

you had me at man sauce, call me later

[Trunks]

Originally Posted by Johnj

We don't send defense forces to countries in Africa because they don't want us to. Remember what happened when we tried to help the Somalians. As to South America we do have troops in several countries down there working with their troops in drug interdiction operations and the like. Other countries like Venezuela don't want us in there because they find it easier to blame all their problems on the USA.

true, but you do remember what Americans were trying to do besides help right? They said it great in the movie BHD. It went something like this. "you think you can come in our country, kill our general, and make us adopt an American democracy?" If america went there only to help, as in distributing food, peacekeeping, etc then I can see your point. However, action in Somalia also seems to have an imperialistic element behind it.

[Johnj]

Sorry Trunks last time I checked there wasn't anything in Somalia except the starving masses and the war lords who hoard the food. Our military went there to try to distribute food to the starving masses. As in most cases no good deed went unpunished.

[Trunks]

Originally Posted by Johnj

Sorry Trunks last time I checked there wasn't anything in Somalia except the starving masses and the war lords who hoard the food. Our military went there to try to distribute food to the starving masses. As in most cases no good deed went unpunished.

I am in no way trying to say America did not do good in Somalia. Because the US did. However, it would be naive to say that they did not attempt to interfere in the countries other "internal affairs," so to speak. If I am not mistaken, operation Gothic Serpent, whose goal was to capture Omar Salad and Mohamed Hassan Awale, both top advisors to Aidid, ignited the battle of Magadishu. If the US was more concerned with distributing food, and policing the towns, then this would not have happened. However, as always, we had to stick our noses where they dont belong, and because of that, 18 american soldiers were killed, 73 wounded, and somewhere around 1000 Somalis were also killed.

[Whatada]

Wow, i haven't heard a single thing about recent suspected US involvement in Syria. oOo:

I'm moving to canada.

[TGB!]

Originally Posted by Whatada

Wow, i haven't heard a single thing about recent suspected US involvement in Syria. oOo:

I'm moving to canada.

The SYRIAN government is sweating. As they should be. You dont assasinate foreign leaders and expect the world-court to be silent.

[Whatada]

america is like Will Smith.. sometimes it's really gay and nobody can fucking stand it, and sometimes it's kind of almost cool. wallbash:

[ninty]

[quote="TGB!":ee640][quote=Whatada]Wow, i haven't heard a single thing about recent suspected US involvement in Syria. oOo:

I'm moving to canada.[/quote]

[color=indigo][b]The SYRIAN government is sweating. As they should be. You dont assasinate foreign leaders and expect the world-court to be silent.[/b][/color][/quote:ee640]
Oh, the irony is comical.

Please tell me you were baiting.

[url="http://members.aol.com/bblum6/assass.htm"]http://members.aol.com/bblum6/assass.htm[/url]

[Johnj]

Are you saying that because elements of the United States government were allegedly involved in those assassination plots, (most failed) somehow that absolves the Syrian government in this case. Did you also look into how many assassination plots each man on that list were allegedly involved with? And if any of them were, wouldn't that absolve the United States government in those cases, or is the U. S. of A. being held to a higher standard.


beer: dance:

[TGB!]

[quote=ninty][quote="TGB!":89516][quote=Whatada]Wow, i haven't heard a single thing about recent suspected US involvement in Syria. oOo:

I'm moving to canada.[/quote]

[color=indigo][b]The SYRIAN government is sweating. As they should be. You dont assasinate foreign leaders and expect the world-court to be silent.[/b][/color][/quote]
Oh, the irony is comical.

Please tell me you were baiting.

[url="http://members.aol.com/bblum6/assass.htm"]http://members.aol.com/bblum6/assass.htm[/url][/quote:89516]

The fact that OBL is on this list - that you are using to counter my disgust at Syria being complicit in the murder of the Lebanese PM - is. . .galling. Do you have any idea who even 1/10th of those people are? Granted "planning for" could mean any NUMBER of leaders. . .but the fact that one of your "innocent targets" died of cancer following major SUPPORT from the US - one has to question the veracity of this list.

Have fun ninty.

[ninty]

Would you argue the fact that the US has not assissanated anyone?

My point is not to say Syria is not guilty of assissanating certain individuals and should not be punished, rather that many countries do the same. The one difference is when the US does it the "world courts" are silent. US assissanates a world leader it's called advancing democracy. Another country does it, it's called terrorism. Any country which partakes in such activities should be punished accordingly.

[Madmartagen]

Originally Posted by Chappy

you had me at man sauce, call me later

ed:

i cant stay mad at you anymore. kisskiss.

[Johnj]

1949 - Kim Koo, Korean opposition leaderIn 1949 Kim was assassinated by Ahn Doo-hee in his office. Although some suggest there may have been a right-wing conspiracy to assassinate him in which even president Rhee could have been involved, no details of the assassination have been revealed. Moreover, Ahn Doo-hee was murdered by Kim's follower in 1996, thus further obscuring the prospect of finding the motive of assassination.

1950s - CIA/Neo-Nazi hit list of more than 200 political figures in West Germany
to be "put out of the way" in the event of a Soviet invasion. Can't touch this.

1950s - Chou En-lai, Prime minister of China, several attempts on his life. 1955 He survived the murder attempt by Taiwanese agent when he went to Bandung. The Taiwanese agents had planted a bomb, MK7 made in America, on a plane that was supposed to be Zhou's plane. Zhou was hospitalized in 1974 for bladder cancer, but continued to conduct work from the hospital, with Deng Xiaoping as the First Deputy Premier, handling most important State Council matters. Zhou died on the morning of January 8, 1976

1950s, 1962 - Sukarno, President of Indonesia. On November 30, 1957, there was a grenade attack against Sukarno when he was visiting a school in Cikini, Jakarta. Six children were killed but Sukarno did not suffer any serious wounds. There were more assassination attempts when he visited Sulawesi in 1962. Stripped of his presidential title by Indonesia's provisional parliament on March 12, 1967, led by A.H. Nasution and remained under house arrest until his death at age 69 in Jakarta in 1970.

1951 - Kim Il Sung, Premier of North Korea. Kim died suddenly of a heart attack in Pyongyang on July 8, 1994, bequeathing the DPRK's mounting crisis to Kim Jong-il.

1953 - Mohammed Mossadegh, Prime Minister of Iran. 08/19/53 Mossadegh was tried for treason, and sentenced to three years in prison. Following his release he remained under house arrest until his death in on March 5, 1967.

1950s (mid) - Claro M. Recto, Philippines opposition leader. On October 2, 1960, he suffered a fatal heart attack in Rome, Italy while on his mission (Cultural Envoy with the rank of Ambassadors Extraordinary and Minister Plenipotentiary on Cultural Mission to Europe and Latin America) and died.

1955 - Jawaharlal Nehru, Prime Minister of India. Nehru died on 27 May 1964. India's heavy defeat in the war with China, which dimmed his public stature greatly, and affected him greatly both physically and mentally: he felt betrayed by the Chinese, whom he had trusted implicitly and supported in many fora. He died shortly thereafter,

1957 - Gamal Abdul Nasser, President of Egypt. In November 1954 Nasser removed Naguib and placed him under house arrest, accusing him of supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and knowing of the attempt on his life in October 1954. Nasser's perfect execution of this speech and his bodyguards' lack of protective action in response to the shots led to speculation that the entire event had been staged. Nasser died of a heart attack on September 28, 1970.

1959, 1963, 1969 - Norodom Sihanouk, leader of Cambodia. King Sihanouk went into self-imposed exile in January 2004, taking up residence in Pyongyang, North Korea, and later in Beijing, China. Citing reasons of ill-health, he announced his abdication of the throne on October 7, 2004.

1960 - Brig. Gen. Abdul Karim Kassem, leader of Iraq. An assassination attempt in 1959 by dedicated pan-Arabists (including Saddam Hussein). A second assassination attempt, motivated by suspected Communist influence and state control over the petroleum sector, was carried out with the backing of the British government and the American CIA in 1963. On 9 February 1963, Qassim was executed after another coup, this one receiving support from pan-Arabist elements who had received support from Egypt.

1950s-70s - José Figueres, President of Costa Rica, two attempts on his life. In 1957 an assassination plot by dictator Rafael Leonidas Trujillo (Dominican Republic) was uncovered. No mention of the second attempt. Died 8 June 1990.

1961 - Francois "Papa Doc" Duvalier, leader of Haiti. Died in 1971. In 1986, 15 years after his death, Duvalier's body was exhumed and ritually beaten to "death".

1961 - Patrice Lumumba, Prime Minister of the Congo (Zaire). 17 January 1961. He was seized by Katangese soldiers commanded by Belgians and driven to Villa Brouwe. He was guarded and brutalized still further by both Belgian and Katangese troops while President Tschombe and his cabinet decided what to do with him.That same night it is said Lumumba was bundled into another convoy that headed into the bush. It drew up beside a large tree. Three firing squads had been assembled, commanded by a Belgian. Another Belgian had overall command of the execution site. Lumumba and two other comrades from the government were lined up against a large tree. President Tschombe and two other ministers were present for the executions, which took place one at a time. Lumumba's corpse was then buried nearby.

1961 - Gen. Rafael Trujillo, leader of Dominican Republic. Trujillo was shot dead by members of his own armed forces on May 30, 1961 while traveling in an automobile. There is suspicion that the CIA provided the weapons to the assassins in hopes of creating the possibility of the formation of a less reactionary government,

1963 - Ngo Dinh Diem, President of South Vietnam. Upon hearing that a coup d'etat was being designed by ARVN Generals led by General Dương Văn Minh, the United States gave secret assurances to the general that the U.S. would not interfere. Dương Văn Minh and his fellow plotters overthrew the government and executed President Diệm and his younger brother, Ngo Dinh Nhu, on November 2, 1963. The United States publicly expressed shock and disappointment that Diệm had been killed.

1960s-70s - Fidel Castro, President of Cuba, many attempts on his life. Not going to bother as he's still around

1960s - Raúl Castro, high official in government of Cuba also still around.

1965 - Francisco Caamaño, Dominican Republic opposition leader. During the Winter of 1973, after a few weeks of guerrilla-fighting Balaguer's regular army, having his men being killed off one by one, and not receiving the much hoped-for peasant support, he was wounded and captured, only to be executed later, much like the way Che Guevara met his demise almost six years before in Bolivia.

1965-6 - Charles de Gaulle, President of France. He died suddenly in 1970, while in the middle of writing his memoirs. In perfect health until then, it was reported that as he had finished watching the evening news on television and was sitting in his armchair he suddenly said "I feel a pain here", pointing to his neck, just seconds before he fell unconscious due to an aneurysmal rupture. Within minutes he was dead. (I just glanced through the Wikipedia page on de Gaulle and saw nothing about an assassination attemptin 65 or 66, however on August 22, 1962, there was an assassination attempt by the OAS terrorist group.


As you can see most of these men died of natural causes or were assassinated by their own people or opposition forces. I'll look into the rest of the list later. All I did was look up each (except the 200 unnamed Germans) on the Wikipedia site.

[Pyro]

Well...TGB is a radical...so he does what he does.

At least he tries to argue back with people instead of blindly agreeing like Stackem does to TGBs comments.