[elstatec]

Originally Posted by c312

too bad that was like one resturant/deli in the house of reps..not the entire nation. sleeping:

and it was a joke really, it wasn't serious.[/quote:86d22]


i dont see the funny side.

[c312]

you don't live in America...

[Madmartagen]

weak ass muslims trying to come up with a comeback with shit like 'muhammed' pastry, gtfo. strudel and entenmanns > muhammed pastry.

[elstatec]

Originally Posted by c312

you don't live in America...

you don't live in Iran...

[Johnj]

You don't live in Iran either.

[Tripper]

I don't think it was a smart move. If you want to make things worse and create far more tension - Then do what the europeans did and re-publish the images.

I mean, honestly, if you want to make a point about free speech regarding Islam, was this really the time to make it? I mean the relationship between the middle east and western society is pretty well fucked at the moment, and doing stuff like this at this point in time is making it really bad, and forcing a solid division.

I don't agree with the way they reacted, but then again, I see it as sort of childish to provoke in the way that these newspapers did, and I see it as just plain foolish to do it at this point in time....

What does it prove anyway? I mean it's obvious they have the right to exercise free speech - They don't live in dictatorships - The newspapers would allow them to print, and they know it. So what is the point? Just to spite muslims? Wow, that's a mature way to handle a very tender issue, during a very unstable time.

These people just need to look at the bigger picture - People are getting to involved in picking sides in this thing and not looking out for the greater good.

[c312]

Originally Posted by Machette

Huntingtons theory of "the clash of civilizations" has been set...the fault lines are set...if all of you don't know what I'm talking about (I'm sure most of you don't) read Samuel P. Huntingtons "the clash of civilizations and the remaking of world order" it will change your perspective on everything..many intellects in think tanks, from what I'm reading, agree that this is the next step.

well one of Huntington's "civilizations" is Islam. But the Middle Eastern Muslims are the only ones reacting to the cartoon. The Indonesian muslims (a very, very large percentage of muslims live in Indonesia and it's surrounding areas) aren't reacting the same way at all? Huntington's theory would have suggested that they are similar cultures and are thus linked into a civilization and would act similarly, yet the haven't. That's because they are more different than Huntington suggests. He lumped people into too broad categories to simplify his theory, when in reality such broad divisions in the global population is not realistic. People in specific states are more different than he gives them credit for, and it was seen in the reaction to the cartoon.

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by c312

well one of Huntington's "civilizations" is Islam. But the Middle Eastern Muslims are the only ones reacting to the cartoon. The Indonesian muslims (a very, very large percentage of muslims live in Indonesia and it's surrounding areas) aren't reacting the same way at all? Huntington's theory would have suggested that they are similar cultures and are thus linked into a civilization and would act similarly, yet the haven't. That's because they are more different than Huntington suggests. He lumped people into too broad categories to simplify his theory, when in reality such broad divisions in the global population is not realistic. People in specific states are more different than he gives them credit for, and it was seen in the reaction to the cartoon.

[url:0ff51]http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060203/wl_afp/europeislammediaindonesia[/url:0ff51]
[url:0ff51]http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_asiapacific/view/191316/1/.html[/url:0ff51]

oOo:

[c312]

but read the articles, they said it was dozens, less than 100, and that is in the world's most populous muslim country. they are hardly reacting at all compared to the people in the middle east and taking the amount of muslims in the coutnry into consideration.

[Eight Ace]

Originally Posted by Tripper

I don't think it was a smart move. If you want to make things worse and create far more tension - Then do what the europeans did and re-publish the images.

weren't they also re-published in NZ?

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by c312

but read the articles, they said it was dozens, less than 100, and that is in the world's most populous muslim country. they are hardly reacting at all compared to the people in the middle east and taking the amount of muslims in the coutnry into consideration.

Did you read both articles?

[quote:a37bc]About 100 members of the Front of the Defenders of Islam (FPI) massed outside the building, chanting: "Let's go jihad! We're ready for jihad!". One of their banners said: "Let's slaughter the Danish ambassador!"[/quote:a37bc]

[quote:a37bc]In Surabaya, Indonesia's second largest city, a group of about 300 Muslims rallied outside the Danish representative office.[/quote:a37bc]

oOo:

You're obviously basing your opinion here on media attention, because that has generally been focused on the middle east.

[Tripper]

[quote="Eight Ace":9cf72]

Originally Posted by Tripper

I don't think it was a smart move. If you want to make things worse and create far more tension - Then do what the europeans did and re-publish the images.

weren't they also re-published in NZ?[/quote:9cf72]

Yeah, and I thought that was fucking stupid of the newspaper - Putting the rest of the country at risk just to show they have a huge penis. Our Prime Minister also condemed it.

[c312]

Originally Posted by Tripper

Did you read both articles?

[quote:c0048]About 100 members of the Front of the Defenders of Islam (FPI) massed outside the building, chanting: "Let's go jihad! We're ready for jihad!". One of their banners said: "Let's slaughter the Danish ambassador!"

[quote:c0048]In Surabaya, Indonesia's second largest city, a group of about 300 Muslims rallied outside the Danish representative office.[/quote:c0048]

oOo:

You're obviously basing your opinion here on media attention, because that has generally been focused on the middle east.[/quote:c0048]

ok, 400 people out of 200 million...still very unimpressive.

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by c312

[quote:e445f]In Surabaya, Indonesia's second largest city, a group of about 300 Muslims rallied outside the Danish representative office.

oOo:

You're obviously basing your opinion here on media attention, because that has generally been focused on the middle east.[/quote:e445f]

ok, 400 people out of 200 million...still very unimpressive.[/quote:e445f]

Well...Have you got the figures for the middle eastern muslims??

Didn't think so.

...and even then, there are probably alot more than the figures I quoted - Like I said, the media has been focusing its attention far more on the middle east simply because of what's been going on over there recently - So there is going to be less reporting of Indonesian muslim reactions to this latest issue.

Regardless though, Machette is right about Huntington - The division is being caused by conflicting ideals and morals, a result of troubled middle eastern-western relations....The middle east reaction is obviously going to be at least a little bit more extreme simply because that area of the world has also been physically fucked with by westerners. Not like Indonesia, and even so, there is still strong indonesian reaction which supports that point.

[c312]

when you say that the middle east is going to act differently than indonesia because they've been through different things, it proves my point. they can't all be lumped into the group that he lumps them into. Middle eastern muslims are different than indonesian muslims because they experience different things because of their different cultures/geographical location. Huntington's theory is too simple, the indonesians won't go to war just because the middle easter people with the same religion do, it won't happen.

Don't get me wrong, Huntington's theory has some good points to it that make sense, but I'm not gonna just beleive it because I read it so it must be true. There is a lot of controversy over his theory, I feel some people just read it and cite it to sound smart and think it's a unanimous opinion in the world and that it must be true.

and I still don't think that Indonesia has protested or become nearly as upset as some middle eastern countries.