[Tripper]

Originally Posted by c312

no there hasn't been a strong indonesian showing of anger.

and when you say that the middle east is going to act differently than indonesia because they've been through different things, it proves my point. they can't all be lumped into the group that he lumps them into. Middle eastern muslims are different than indonesian muslims because they experience different things because of their different cultures/geographical location. Huntington's theory is too simple, the indonesians won't go to war just because the middle easter people with the same religion do, it won't happen.

Don't get me wrong, Huntington's theory has some good points to it that make sense, but I'm not gonna just beleive it because I read it so it must be true. There is a lot of controversy over his theory, I feel some people just read it and cite it to sound smart and think it's a unanimous opinion in the world and that it must be true.

The Indonesian reaction IS strong, considering they have no other reason to have problems with western society. I bet if there hadn't been all this shit in the middle east recently then the middle eastern reaction would be the same or similar to the Indonesian reaction - but because they have more reason to hate westerners, there is a stronger reaction.

Huntingtons point is that islam and other group's morals and ideals conflict so drastically that if they're thrown in together, there will be hostilities...

That means that while there is a difference between the middle eastern muslim, and the asian muslim (a result of geography) its essentially the same group of people with the same ideals.

They may not side with them in a war now, but it is far to early to say - This is just the beginning of the division, as the western hate for islam breeds and vice versa, there will be more problems.
As soon as there is an issue regarding south-east asian muslims (There has already been a bomb or two aimed at westerners in Bali), then things will heat up and you'll see them side with middle eastern muslims, when they're catching hate from us westerners.

If there is an attack on Australia, it will most probably come from Indonesia, and thats when the shit will hit the fan, and Huntingtons theory will start to look pretty damn likely.

[c312]

but that would be by al Qaeda or other terrorists, that is different than what huntington was saying. he said that nation states or massive groups of people within them would go to war with other nation states or groups of people that are in the same "civilization" if anyone does any attacking, it would probably be terrorist groups, small bands of extremists. The average muslim is not going to attack anybody. If this situation with Iran comes to conflict, I doubt Indonesia would have anything to do with it, Huntington would suggest they would.

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by c312

but that would be by al Qaeda or other terrorists, that is different than what huntington was saying. he said that nation states or massive groups of people within them would go to war with other nation states or groups of people that are in the same "civilization" if anyone does any attacking, it would probably be terrorist groups, small bands of extremists. The average muslim is not going to attack anybody. If this situation with Iran comes to conflict, I doubt Indonesia would have anything to do with it, Huntington would suggest they would.

Look back a decade ago at global islam-western relations, and look at them now. At this rate, I don't think you should write off Indonesian support of a muslim jihad in future....and of course not every muslim is going to fight. I don't think Huntington ever suggested that, but it's likely there will be enough to have a conflict...All it takes is a strategically placed bomb in downtown Sydney, with support from the Indonesian government (It's not impossible - The Malaysian Prime Minister has supported holy war on Jews) and an Australian reaction would toss the two nations into conflict.

Also beare in mind that Indonesia is spilling at the sides, and has had a series of problems with Australia in the past. The East Timor conflict also represents that Indonesians are familiar with war against "Christians," and have the will to fight a long war.

Anything can happen, Huntington's theory is extremely valid, imo.

[c312]

Originally Posted by Tripper

Anything can happen, Huntington's theory is extremely valid, imo.

Ok. You just seem to agree with him more than I do, that's fine. We'll see how things pan out, it could go either way.

[duncey]

When racist jokes go wrong.

P.S. what do you call a girl with one leg?


ILENE


What do you call a chinese girl with one leg?



IRENE!

[Machette]

Originally Posted by c312

Don't get me wrong, Huntington's theory has some good points to it that make sense, but I'm not gonna just beleive it because I read it so it must be true. There is a lot of controversy over his theory, I feel some people just read it and cite it to sound smart and think it's a unanimous opinion in the world and that it must be true.

Huntington's theory which as you pointed out was highly controversial, no one believed that what he explained would ever some true. I remember one part of his book he listed this statistic about muslims/catholics/buddhists/hinduism and other religions and the stats showed that over time muslims would over take christianity in a number of years (2025 I beleive, dont have the book on me so I can't tell you exactly) but he beleived that the world right now was split up into different sections - Muslim world, orthodox christian world etc...and he saw these worlds sooner or later clashing. Foreign policy would not be based on ideology any more it would be based on culture. I get your point about it being something in which you read and everyone is quick to use it as a footnote, but I believe that Hungtinton was really catching on to something with his theory and its extremely manipulative. (I remember coming out with a totally different outlook on foreign affairs after reading it)

[c312]

I know the theory, you don't have to tell me... I just find myself skeptical of it considering that most conflict since he came up with his theory in 1993 has been within civilizations, not among civilizations. There was a study that said something like 70% of conflicts after 1993 were between people in the same civilization (consider african conflict, etc..)

[Machette]

Well he wrote in his theory that africa was a messed up continent and thats common sense really, he said that Africa's only leading nation would be South Africa. But look at Iraq many believe that Bush and Cheney among his staff read Hungtintons theory and took it the wrong way. I think they ultimately did but thats another argument for another day. Look at the Chechnya conflict its between two religions - orthodox christians vs muslims.

Also I repeated some facts in his theory so others could base a opinion on the matter, not trying to make you look stupid or anything.

[imort]

machete you are one politicly correct fuckin prick..how would you/your loved ones like to die in an explosion, covered in muslim remains you cunt..

[Machette]

You have provided nothing but ignorant statements. When you say something worthy of an argument maybe you can go noticed. But if you continue to use swear words in your replies calling people fucking idiots because of their views, it makes you look like an idiot yourself.

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by imort

machete you are one politicly correct fuckin prick..how would you/your loved ones like to die in an explosion, covered in muslim remains you cunt..

HELLO! Welcome to our wonderful board!




....Now get the fuck out you raving scumcunt, we have no more room for shit stirring penispickers around here. Don't let the door smack you on your gaping asshole on the way out.

[imort]

Originally Posted by Tripper

HELLO! Welcome to our wonderful board!




....Now get the fuck out you raving scumcunt, we have no more room for shit stirring penispickers around here. Don't let the door smack you on your gaping asshole on the way out.

[c312]

Originally Posted by imort

whoooa !! ya maori fuckin alcy...shut ya abo gob ya twat.. you may live in a lovely country...but i fucking don't..its full of undesirables..i.e. MUSLIMS

ban:

[Poseidon]

Originally Posted by c312

ban:

[Stammer]

Originally Posted by imort

whoooa !! ya maori fuckin alcy...shut ya abo gob ya twat.. you may live in a lovely country...but i fucking don't..its full of undesirables..i.e. MUSLIMS

oOo:

New Zealand has a sizable population of Muslims, according to their 2001 census, the number of Muslims rose 74% from 1996 to 2001.