Chechen Terrorists Kill Hostage in Moscow Theater Siege
 

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Chechen separatist guerrillas killed one woman as they seized a Russian theater and threatened to shoot or blow up 700 hostages Thursday unless Russia pulled its troops out of their homeland.

Police said the group of about 40, including masked women with explosives strapped to their bodies, had shot a woman who tried to escape as they burst into the theater Wednesday night.


The rebels, who called themselves a suicide squad, made threats on a Chechen Web site and via hostages to blow up the theater or begin killing captives unless their demands were met.

Sergei Ignatchenko, a spokesman for the FSB security service, said a body wheeled out of the theater late Thursday was that of a young woman who had not been identified. "She was killed yesterday as she tried to escape during the takeover," he told NTV television. Officials said some 60 foreigners were among the captives.


Russian President Vladimir Putin,who rose to power on pledges three years ago to boost public security, said the main task was to secure the hostages' safe release.

He said information from the rebels' representatives confirmed that "the terrorist act was planned abroad."

Governments around the world denounced the hostage-taking and called on the world community to unite against such acts of terror.

---------------------------
These Chenchen punks need to die.

I heard something about 2 explosions this morning. Anyone know anything about that?

yeah apperently there were 2 blasts but not much said about it, it's here on this CNN link

http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10 ... index.html

More individuals driven to desperate measures because of invasion of their land. hake:

Man, you really opened Pandora's Box.

You do have have valid point though, it's easy to label someone as terrorist when you don't know the reason behind the action.

not the best way to get me on their side

There are right and wrong ways to go about things. Taking civilial hostages and murder are not the right way.

eek:

Im sure thats top of their list of priorities getting you on their side.

eek:

Agreed, you dont get many people in the world community on your side my murdering a woman, and taking hostages.

[quote="Low spark":d0cb2]Man, you really opened Pandora's Box. [/quote:d0cb2]

biggrin:

Fuck it...I'll open it up even more. mad:

People do shit for a reason, they aren't making huge decisions on a whim. Now you must say to yourself, "What would drive someone to be so desperate as to be willing to blow the shit outta themselves to send a message?" Would you do this? No, you are comfortable in your house, with your pc and your food and your liberties.

Now imagine your personal freedoms are gone. You are constantly harassed, bullied, see your people killed on their land, in their homes, children, women, men, old folks...whoever. Then watch the news and see that nothing is being done to the people who are doing this to you. I bet life is pretty fucked up if you see that every day. Then you get approached about how you can make a difference, you can make the world see the real truth, you can bring the justice to those who have done this to you. Sure, at first you aren't really willing, then you see your wife, daughter, cousin die..and it doesn't sound so bad, it's the only way you can see yourself getting revenge.

Is what terrorists do right? No. Does killing women and children make things right? No. Is killing someone in such a manner murder? Yes. But is killing women and children with cruise missiles, and bombs not murder? You tell me.

In this game no one is innocent, and no one is right.

The woman was also beaten (doctors found many bruises) before being killed when trying to escape, stupid terrorist fuckers.

If you use terrorism to further your cause, no matter how just it may be, you'll get no support from me.

[quote="Pfc.Green":30823].

If you use terrorism to further your cause, no matter how just it may be, you'll get no support from me.[/quote:30823]


I'd watch it Green... Terrorism comes in many forms..... it has been said before 'one man's terrorist is another mans freedom fighter'.

Terrorism is the last resort of radicals that dont have enough support to do things the right way. Its Cowardice. If they really were brave, why dont they take on the russian military? If they were going to die for their cause anyway, why take civilians with them, why not show true dedication and strike a valid target. Now the world sympathizes with russia and isnt interested in the reasons. Instead of gaining support they lose credibility. Rightfully so in my opinion.

Chechnya has been part of Russia since 1530.

Chechnya is the source of most of the violence in the caucasus, also, most of the caucasus people are screwed up.

Fuck the chechens.

Raining bombs and missiles down on civilian targets is terrorism. The U.S., Russia, and Israel are all guilty of terrorism. History is written by the winners. Take some time to open your eyes and look around. Don't believe everything you read.

Green, I see you snivel for all the innocent lives lost in Isreal, and now Russia. Why don't you feel for the women and children who have been killed in Palestine and Chechnya? Are they not deserving of your sympathy? What did they do to deserve being killed?

Again, I don't condone terrorism by any means, but let's call out all terrorism. Funny how people get all up in arms, when the shit goes down in their backyards.

Well said pest.

Indeed. Well said...

But why? Are these countries bombing civilian targets to make a statement or are civilians really the target? The answer is almost always no. They are targeting terrorist/guerilla assets that seek refuge in civilian areas. Its a win/win situation for the terrorists. If they dont get bombed they win. If they do get bombed, they can claim civilian casualties to further their cause, and win. Again, this is cowardice to me. They are selfishly exposing civilian targets to further their cause.

I think Russia should send a couple of bombers to bomb the Chechnyan moountains with 30 vacuum bombs to eradicate them off th face if the planet and get rid of one more problem in the world.

Then, I think Israel should dump vaccuum bombs on arafat and palestinians.

Then, I think that the US should drop 100 vaccuum bombs on Iraq, and then give 60 billion dollars of oil money they earn to Russia. Iraq owed russia 60 billion dollars cuz Russia dumped there old tanks and artillery in the middle east.

I see politcal correctness coming...

America won't give Russia it's profits we have to get are money back for arming Iraq when it was to our atvantage to have Saddam as a ally.

OK then, Russia won't support US if it won't get its money back.

uh, Checneya was part of the Russian Federation, then they created their own "government" and claimed independence, remember what the US did when certain states tried this around the 1860s.

Also think about what would happen if say Texas, or California said now that they are a separate country, they would quickly be sorrounded by the USN and USMC from the sea, the Army from the land borders and the Air Force and Navy air from above.

Just like the god damn quebeckers.

Quebec was a stupid story... all in the name of a fuckin' language.

"Oui, mesdames et messieurs! Notre langue, quelle belle langue! Nous
devons absolument la proteger, la preserver a tout prix, que cela soit par
separation ou par guerre. Etant donne notre manque de ressource, il serait
plus plausible de separer du reste du Canada, qui est d'avantage composes
d' anglais!

Maudite tetes carrees!!"

LOL.

Let Texas sucede...I could give a rat's ass.

I don't know much about the Chechnya situation, but it is my guess that though they were once part of a greater Russia, that it was once an enclave of similiar people (be it religion, language, etc) that was forced into a larger union. Almost every conflict that we see in the present is due to some "Superpower" coming into an area and carving out boundries that give no thought to the make-up of the people invovled (i.e. Yugoslavia, Palestine, etc). So these people are forced to live together, the Superpower goes on it's merry way, and all hell breaks loose. History has proven this time and time again.

As for terrorists tactics. You can look at it however you want, sure cowardice to hide among the civilian population. But what would you call a man with a machine gun facing a tank? Stupid. Second, a terrorist hides out in a civilian building...F#ck it, let's blow up the whole building from 2,000 miles away with a cruise missle. Yeah, we killed a terrorist, but just created a hundred more enemies. It's a cycle that will not end.

What's the solution? Sh!t, I don't know. All I know is if you are gonna play with fire, then you are gonna get burned. Let me ask, what would you do in their situation? And don't give me the BS, really think about it.

Right on my Russian brother !! Perhaps you and I should talk world ideas over a brew......how 'bout it.

NOTE: for those of you who don't speak Russian, vacuum bombs are another term for FAEs (Fuel Air Explosives), when they go off they suck all teh air out of a region while burning it, kinda liek a flamethrower, thus the term vacuum bomb.

*the resident weaponry expert strikes again*

What DO you want them to do anyway ?

Terrorist demand: end war now or 150 people die.

Politicians: ????????????????????????????????????

First thing I would do would be putting sometype Chechnyan delegates in the Kremlin, along with all the other minorities in the Russian Federation. Then they might be able to come to a compromise without having to split from the federation. Just my thoughts... I was just making a reference to the American Revolution and the whole parliament issue at that time.

Thats exactly what the Chechnyans have been doing. Fighting the Russian Military. But do we know anything about it? No. As long as the Russians control Chechnya no one will know. However I still do not agree with terrorism. They should have blown up a military base filled with soldiers but they didnt. AS long as its a military target thats fine with me but never ever civilians.

[quote:b6cbf]Right on my Russian brother !! Perhaps you and I should talk world ideas over a brew......how 'bout it.[/quote:b6cbf]

I could go for a brew. :)

I have read up a little on the situation but dont really have a full understanding on the background for this. Whatever the real problem is, they have lost any chance of maintaining the moral high ground by intentioanly targeting civilians for mass murder. In a stategic sense, they have made a huge mistake, in that this will only strenghten russian resolve and has highlighted a connection to external radical elements.

[quote="Recycled Spooge":efa27]First thing I would do would be putting sometype Chechnyan delegates in the Kremlin, along with all the other minorities in the Russian Federation. Then they might be able to come to a compromise without having to split from the federation. Just my thoughts... I was just making a reference to the American Revolution and the whole parliament issue at that time.[/quote:efa27]

I think that would be a bad idea, when one terrorist gets away with their demands, others get bold and follow.

If the Russians let this pass without severe retaliation, we can expect a similar Al Quaeda attack here in the US. the US being an open society and all it is quite easy to acquire weapons here and the police generally don't question people who are supposedly doing their job (the Chechens disguised themselves as maintenance staff moving construction equipment, which was actually crates of bombs and guns)

I was thinking about this whole situation last night as I was at the local bar playing pool and getting drunk. Yeah, there weren't any cute chicks around. Anyway, there are some interesting cultural and socialogical factors that need to be looked at when talking about terrorism, and war in general. If you look back on history, you will see that many cultures looked on the killing of women and children as a fact of war. Native American tribes killed them, the Mongols wiped out entire cities despite there being women and children, the Vikings, and not so long ago, it was an accepted fact that civilians were going to be killed. Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Dresden, the bombing of London, carpet bombing in Cambodia and Vietnam, etc.

When did it become such a deplorable act to kill civilians? Surely, the Western socities did not care very much about it just 50 years ago. This can be seen by the examples above. Or perhaps we only care when they are "our" civilians.

Now think about this. Say you are raised in a culture, where the killing of women and children is a fact of war, for some even a means to win a war. This is what you have been taught your entire life. Through your perceptions, strapping a bomb to yourself and blowing up a bus is in fact an act of bravery. To us it is an act of cowardice because we have been raised so. When two opposing cultures and/or societies clash, there are really no "rules of war". These things have to be understood when we begin opposing different cultures.

Just some more food for thought.

Very well said.

So if these bastards can kill our women and children the why should the US and Russia be civilized toward Chechneya and Afghanistan.
Leave them to the BUFFs and the Bears (B-52s and TU-95s), then let God sort them out.

[quote="Sgt Stryker":f04ab]So if these bastards can kill our women and children the why should the US and Russia be civilized toward Chechneya and Afghanistan.
Leave them to the BUFFs and the Bears (B-52s and TU-95s), then let God sort them out.[/quote:f04ab]


Because we should be better than that . We should show that we value human life above a else. We should show that by working together we can work any problem. We don't need lines like "Either your with or against us."

What you're suggesting is like trying to talk with a murderer while he is plugging holes in you with an automatic weapon, extremely dumb idea, we'll only lose more of OUR people that way. Friendly casualties are unacceptable!