New map update - Crossfire: Part Deux
 

This is not strictly off-topic so I'll understand if it's moved. I posted here as this forum is the most popular and I want as many people to see this as possible.

Well, the map is in its final stages. 15 days of work. I'm doing a full compile now and will finish off the lighting and check for basic errors tomorrow.

Then the map will be up for testing (Wintersforge, I'll send you a PM so we can discuss using the aM server if the offer's still there).

I have still taken pictures at the end of each day's work, and I wanted to use this thread to show the complete "Making of" from start to present.

I'll post the previous 9 days here (already posted in another thread - Skip to the next post if you've seen all this already), then next post will be days 10-15.

Feedback on anythng glaringly bad would be appreciated before I release it for testing.

Crossfire: Part Deux

Crude blueprint drawn up:

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/map.jpg

Day 1

Started the figure-8 road and bridge.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day1.jpg

Day 3 (Not sure what happened on day two hehe)

Finished the bridge and started on buildings inside the northern loop of the road.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day3.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day3a.jpg

Day 4

Exterior of buildings in northern loop done. Did some basic interior but not a lot.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day4.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day4a.jpg

Day 5

Completed interior/exterior of buildings in northern loop - Pub and beer garden, restaurant and wine storage (The last is later changed to an empty room).

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day5.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day5d.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day5a.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day5c.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day5b.jpg

Day 6

Started front of Town Hall.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day6.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day6a.jpg

Day 7

Added detail to front of Town Hall. Did some work on the interior.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day7.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day7a.jpg

Over-view of what I've done so far:

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day7b.jpg

Day 8

Started on rear of Town Hall and garden area.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day8a.jpg

Conference room upstairs in Town Hall.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day8b.jpg

Balcony exit from Town Hall, running along the northern road by the pub and restaurant.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day8c.jpg

Day 9

South side of the Town Hall and exit to gardens located behind it (on left of pic).

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day9a.jpg

Started basics of Town Hall garden located to rear...

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day9b.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day9c.jpg

Over-view of map so far:

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day9d.jpg

And that's as far as I had gotten on the last update... Next post will show my work from day 10 to 15 (today).

Day 10

Started park on North East of map (opposite pub).

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day10a.jpg

Started laying out basics for southern loop.. I do this to get my spacing right and to get a feel for the next stage:

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day10b.jpg

Here you can see the road looping round and meeting up with the bridge... I'm now ready to start building around the southern loop of the road.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day10c.jpg

Day 11

Built one of the 3 buildings in the southern loop (right of pic below) and built a rough Library (domed building to left).

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day11a.jpg

Yet again this is just so I could space out the rest of the boundaries and roads.

Day 12

More work on the southern loop buildings done today.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day12a.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day12b.jpg

Another over-view of the map so far:

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day12c.jpg

This is just how I wanted the map to be according to the blueprint.

Day 13

Built the hotel today (located South West of the map).

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day13a.jpg

Also built generic houses along the south west edge of the map.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day13b.jpg

An over-view of the southern loop as it is today, taken from above the bridge (central to the map).

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day13c.jpg

Day 14

Started the gatehouse and walk-way (located south central edge of map).

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day14a.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day14b.jpg

This bit links to the gatehouse and faces the Library.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day14c.jpg

Did a lot today! More generic houses along the southern edge to complete the entire southern boundary.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day14d.jpg

Here is a view form inside the gatehouse... It gives a good view of the map (Park and Pub to right, Bridge and Town Hall centre).

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day14e.jpg

Day 15

And finally... I did tons today.

Completed the Library exterior....

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day15a.jpg

...and interior...

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day15e.jpg

Built houses along East side of Library (south of Park) complete with their own gardens:

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day15b.jpg

Built generic buildings along North edge (balcony) and added some cars here and there.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day15c.jpg

Here is the last screenshot, an Over-view of the whole map (taken from South West corner looking at North East corner).

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/day15d.jpg

Next up will be interiror lighting, general debugging and some final details.

I'll then script it and zip it up ready for testing.

that looks fastastic

one word....."hotness"

lol, great job. I can't wait to play on it.

looks amazing

Thanks guys.

It should be ready to test before the end of next week.

Here are a few more long-view shots from different angles, just before I go to bed and let this bloody thing compile fully biggrin:

Remember that some of these shots are from higher than a player can go so some roofs will be transparant due to caulking. These faces will not be visible in play.

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/mapview1.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/mapview2.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/mapview3.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/mapview4.jpg

http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/progress/mapview5.jpg

I'm off to bed, been a long day biggrin:

1 thing not sure if you mentioned this but what kinda map is it?

dude badass map...that one will for sure be going on our server

I'm sure I speak for the other LLC guys when I say that it'd be an honour for us to test that map on our server, dude. It looks like a bonafide winner so far.

Hey, it's got a pub...how can it go WRONG?? biggrin:

[quote="Scalping Chief":c9ef1]1 thing not sure if you mentioned this but what kinda map is it?[/quote:c9ef1]

TDM/DM/RB only.

I suppose I could do a simple destory the flak obj version of it, but it's not really designed for obj play.

Pity you can't have drinking matches before a battle, then play the game drunk where your control is all warped biggrin:

Soon as it's ready for testing I'll send you a copy, Zoner.

I'm still compiling it now. It has less vis data than my first map and yet it's taking hours and hours more to do vis... Not sure why. I'm on a way faster pc too.

Might have to drop by .map forums and ask.

that map's based off the "shootign apples" map

[quote=Ydiss] TDM/DM/RB only.

I suppose I could do a simple destory the flak obj version of it, but it's not really designed for obj play.[/quote:e1a8b]plz make an obj version

Way cool.

Never heard of it.

I quite litteraly designed this mapin 30 minutes on a piece of paper with a biro pen at work. Whilst I freely admit my last map was originally based and inspired by a great Half Life map (well, at least the 2v2 version, the rest was all mine), this one is totally my own idea.

It's a figure eight road with buildings around it and a bridge in the middle, there's likely to be lots of maps similar.

I pride myself in creating maps that are as original as possible, and loathe maps that just take a stock map and make it "better", for instance...

By the way, I'm having serious issues compiling this map. Despite the fact that it's smaller in size and VIS data than dmxfire (which takes around an hour to compile) it is taking 12+ hours to compile which I simply cannot understand.

I've posted this on the .map forums but have had no reply helping me yet so until this issue is resolved, this map will not ever be available oOo:

12 hours to compile!!? Holy shiz nit! Hrm. . .are you doing anything to piss off MOHRadiant, like custom textures, or cutting down on any of the geometry? That's a long time, man. Well, so far it looks GREAT, and I wish you the best of luck. I'll move this and leave a copy here.

[quote="Bazooka_Joe":f9c7c]12 hours to compile!!? Holy shiz nit! Hrm. . .are you doing anything to piss off MOHRadiant, like custom textures, or cutting down on any of the geometry? That's a long time, man. Well, so far it looks GREAT, and I wish you the best of luck. I'll move this and leave a copy here.[/quote:f9c7c]

No custom textures, geometry is pretty smart and ordered (I never use CSG subtract, nor hollow and only overlap brushes when I absolutely have to, which is rare). Nothing to cause the VIS tree to clog up like it is.

It doesn't make any sense at all... All evidence points to this new map to compile faster than dmxfire. Less numportals, fewer faces and brushes way fewer static models (like 59 compared to 250+).

I've used detail brushes extensively.

The map only has 240k vis data (dmxfire has 330k+).

dmxfire takes 1 hour no more to compile on my new machine.

I abandoned my new map's compile process after it had been stuck on 99% VIS for 5 hours.

I'm going to spend this week (well, if all goes well hopefully just one night) on debugging the map.

That is I'm going to make copies and start deleting chunks of it to see if there's a particular area causing this issue.

Other than that, I'm not sure what to do... I can't add any more detail brushes or I may as well just not bother trying to VIS at all and the map would be slow as shit to play.

I'll need a lot of that luck, I'm afraid cry:

Actually, it would prolly be better if you sent Boo the map...I don't have Rcon or anything.

Drop by allaboutnothing.net and post 'er up when you get it done.

OK, will do. Is the AAN server SH or AA? Realism or stock?

Spearhead, with AAN Realism. I'm sure that Boo could adjust toyour wants for the map for proper testing.

Oh it's ok... aM plays stock AA or so I recall, so it'd be good to have two different game types testing it.

I would have to say the map would suit stock better. It's quite open and spacious. Plenty of cover to be used but it'd be a bit of a frag fest with realism settings. It'll be worth testing on each to see if there are any flaws in the design for either mode.

I thought a little about an objective version for this map, as requested. I would only make it a simple blow-up-the-target objective, but there's nothing preventing me from making the target different to a flak cannon.

I was thinking of having the Allies spawn in the Hotel Car park (South West corner - check the blue print out) and the Axis spawn in the opposite corner and Town Hall balcony area.

The objective would have to be on the balcony or park (North East of map)... Any suggestions what this could be? If I had to I would extend the map a little bit (add an interior to an empty building, or a new area).

Any suggestions will be considered and credited. Otherwise I'll come up with something myself.

Just let me know when its ready and we will put it throught the paces...

aM>AAN

I'm currently debugging the map through deduction. I deleted an entire half of it and am compiling it now. The VIS completed in reasonable time so, by deduction, I should be able to presume the half I deleted might have the problem in it.

I'll let this finish then I'll delete the other half instead. If it takes ages then I should know which half the error is in.

Then it's a case of deleting half of that half, and then I'll start homing in on particular structures.

Hopefully I'll have the problem sorted by this weekend.

However... Worst case scenario is that I can't find the problem (ie, it's a problem with the whole rather than a part) and the map will have to be binned.

If it comes to that stage I'll have to ask someone here who I can trust to compile it for me, see if that works.

I don't know much about MOHRadiant itself, but could it simply be some sort of unfinished Geometery in the map? Meaning, that a corner is not connected, or something in that sense?

No, I think I know what the problem is. It's likely inefficient VIS. There is VIS data but it's not efficient at blocking off portals from eachother so too many areas can be seen from too many other areas causing a lot of VIS trees (if you've ever seen a fractal diagram and how it splits into infinite trees as the calculations become more dense that's roughly how VIS works.. the more complex the data the more branches and the longer it takes).

I may have to completely redesign the map into 4 quarters that are all totally separated from eachother by VIS (that is each area has no line of sight to the other).

It might make the map uglier but at least I'll be able to compile it and it will run smoothly.

Hey Ydiss I'm an admin on the AAN server and we'll definitely want to try it out. I'll just check back to this thread to see when it's ready.

And yeah, we'd love an OBJ version too. It would be cool if the Axis were the attacking team because there are so many OBJ maps where Axis defends.

Good work. We still have xfire courtyard in our standard DM rotation.

Jeff

Ok, I'll consider that. Won't be ready for a while though... It looks like I'll have to completely rework the entire map to fix the VIS issue.

Could be a few weeks now. oOo:

no matter how good the map is, no one will play it. No one plays custom maps hake:

bullshit they dont. ive played plenty of custom maps on different servers. good map bro, nice work.

Hey if u need any help testing i shall put it up on our server and we can test it if youd like. Just give it to me on AIM or something...name is snwboarddude420

You must still be playing AI in Single player, son.

That just is not true, this map looks fantastic and I would certainly play it.
The reason not many custom maps are played is because of prohibitive fps due to a not well designed map.
My computer is at the lower end and untill I get a new one I would be more than happy to wait longer for a well made playable map than something rushed with 15 fps.
I wish you every luck ydiss and ill follow this topic closely.

dooms.

Yes!

I'm a bloody genious biggrin:

I was about to give up last night. I had been working on trying to sort out the problems with my map damned hard these past 3 days and had gotten nowhere.

No matter what I did the map took ages to compile and even when I divided the map up into 4 sectors (with brutally crude walls, just to test) the map ran really badly with full vis.

I had deleted windows, shortened buildings, added dozens of walls in key places in order to block vis but still keep the map as close to the original as I could and still nothing worked.

Then, just as I was about to go to bed last night I decided to just add a few last ditch re-designs and set it to compile over night and into today. I was even thinking how to redesign the whole map!

I fully expected it to take all day today and I just got up and checked the compile to see it has finished!

This was less than 5 hours (not sure how fast it actually was, I'll try it later on tonight - even if it's 5 hours that's still bearable).

So, I started the map up.

Runs like a fucking dream!

On my machine (athlon XP 2000 - 512DDR ram and 64 MB gforce3) the lowest the FPS goes is 30-40 (and that's only in 2-3 spots - I will still endevour to work on the VIS to remove them). Never lower. Most of the time it runs over 80 FPS. That's as good as stock maps run for me biggrin: We'll see how well I've actually done in testing though.

I feel like I've just solved a bloody mystery.

There are a few negatives to the alterations. The map is slightly more closed off in places (notably the library area. That area was causing the most problems after my deductions so I had to surround it with a hefty wall - ';ll try my best to trim it down as much as I can though).

This means that the map isn't quite the snipers map as it may well have been, but there are still lots of long funnels to snipe in. In fact, the map might be a little more balanced for the changes.

I'll post more pics tonight to show the alterations.

A lot of them are just me having to think very very carefully about LOS and how VIS works. I've had to do a lot of research this week.

So, I'll start working on the lighting, clean up the alterations (a lot of them are very basic, I just wanted to get the problem solved) and I'll get right on to releasing a test version by the end of the week.

Phew biggrin: I was worried there for a bit.

Looks and sounds great, u really know wot ur doin :D, I think the community cud do with another OBJ map as there r only 3 of them at the mo (Bridge/hunt and v2) gud luck in the rest of the project.

Oh, and wot was the map going 2 be called?

Good!! biggrin:

Glad you got that snafu figured out Ydiss and good luck the rest of the way.

...and Magg0t, you haven't looked hard enough for obj maps. I personally played at least 6 brand new obj maps on AAN.net's server last night. Spearhead, mind you...

Thanks guys.

I'll make a quick "Blow up the target" obj version once the TDM/DM/RB version is completed and released.

I'll design it along these lines:

Allies have just taken control of the town and are preparing to deploy reinforcements when an Axis patrol happens upon the area. They have to retaliate by sabotaging two tanks/supply trucks (or whatever). This would allow them to regain control of the town.

Allies spawn on the North side, Axis on the South. The bomb targets would be located under the bridge and by the park (next to the pub).

If I had the inclination to and the skill at scripting I'd have replaced this with a more fun objective whereby all the players must rush to the pub and drink as much as they can before closing time and then beat the crap out of eachother outside. Last one standing wins. Pity this isn't entirely possible. Damn you EA!

What to call the map? Good question. "Crossfire: Part Deux" is a tongue-in-cheek working-title, but I don't think that'll do.

It's not based on a real location so I wouldn't like to name it after a European town of the war.

I was thinking "Crossfire Village" (TDM/DM/RB) and "Crossfire Village: Retaliation" (Objective).

Sound ok?

"Crossfire Village" sounds great!

Yeah, too bad you can't do that pub/drinking contest idea. I have a feeling I'd be pretty good at that...heh heh

Hey thats great new Ydiss. Thanks for taking the time and walking us through from cradle to grave. I enjoyed the step by step and we over at aM are excited to put it through the paces. Maybe close the server down and invite a few aa.com n00bs over as well...Cant wait!!!

Don't forget us aan.net n00bs! biggrin: