Vietnow
 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12838343/

The few the proud, the marines. rock: rock:

Re: Vietnow
 

The marines will investigate these guys and, if true, prosecute them. Obviously the marines don't tolerate killing innocent people. Unlike the guys they are fighting.

seriously. You make it like they are just running rampant through town shooting everybody. A squad made a stupid ass mistake, dont try to blame it on an entire section of armed forces.

Events like this are nails in the coffin of middle-eastern-U.S relations.

Funny, nobody was concerned about the coffin of middle-eastern-U.S. relations when they flew those planes into the WTC.

Bin laden launched those attacks based on his resentment of u.s policy. In peter bergens brilliant book "The osama bin laden I now" he quotes Osama as saying if he hated the western culture so much he would attacked sweden instead. It wasn't about "hating the our freedom" as bush would put it but rather u.s foreign policy in lebanon, iran, iraq etc etc. I think events like these in iraq just allow a further justification for the iraq insurgency to grab recruits.

I think those marines launched their attack based on their resentment of the insurgent's policy. So I guess that makes their actions justifiable. Additional insurgent attacks will justify us even further and allow us to recruit more boys from Iowa.

TGB I'm getting sick of your attempts to label me something I'm not. I was pointing out why Bin Laden did what he did so saying I'm a PR man for him is a lame attempt and a low one at that. And as far as I know Laden never did read or refer to Marx in any of his statements. And that statement makes no sense anyways. Why would Laden fight the Soviet who used marxism in Afghanistan? He fought the soviets because he hated marxism and their ways. I don't know which one of us is ignorant but every time I read your post it really makes me wonder. rolleyes:

I really hate US Foreign policy, can I kill innocents now?

What's funny? Did I say I was concerned? Nope.

If you need people to support the U.S cause, things like this don't help - events like these are so potent in swaying public opinion that it helps the other side greatly. Just like it didn't help those guys that flew the planes into the buildings - They became public enemy number 1 straight after 9/11.

I mean shit does happen in war, etc etc, and something like this WOULD have happened to any other nation in the same situation....but the media has so much control over public opinion, almost more control than politicians themselves, they're the ones who sway events a certain way.

Atrocities in a war? What is this world turning into annoy:

+1 for Ed

Yes +1 for ED he really deserved it for nailing me. I'm actually on my way out to the local Mosque. Just getting the old flying magic carpet ready.

Ah the famous "Mistranslation" thread, which went of the rails. Just because I attempted to clarify 1 quote, one single quote immediately makes me a muslim sympathizer..Brilliant. I guess when Democrats in congress favor tax cuts they are then republicans? Ingenious. Yes ED I am a muslim fundementalist sympathizer after all I suddenly dicthed my atheist stance because Allah had some pretty splendid things to say about life. And just because I said what I said about WHY Laden did what he did means I sympathize his cause? I'm against terrorism that kills innocents and I believe I've said that before on this board. And I said I was also scared of Ahmadinejad because of the whole "12th imam" thing. I believe I brought that up in the mistranslation thread.

And what the fuck does Marx have to do with the Middle East? Seriously, I never have read anything about Marx impacting Muslims. But I guess they dicthed the Koran to read the communist manifesto instead! In all the statements I've seen by Muslims I don't hear anything along the lines of "The working class must find their struggle and defeat the ruling class" its more like "Death to the west!" Marx did have his theories and he is still applicable today. He's been quoted more times in papers and books than your pal Adam Smith. But this really isn't about Marx. It's about my stance on affairs.

And I see that you still don't get it. Your still advocating one side against the other. I just want the senseless killing to stop. But every time the west brokers some kind of cease fire, some Muslim will come along and start killing innocents again. And then you say "I understand why they kidnaped the aid worker and beheaded him." or "Suicide bombing is the only weapon these people have to fight with."

STOP THE KILLINGnotice how I didn't pick a side

I really don't care if Iran has nuclear weapons. If their current history with technology is any indication, they will blow themselves up before they can drop the big one on Israel. Which is what I think they will try to do as soon as they have the bomb.

Ah the famous "Mistranslation" thread, where you want us to only think of one statement used by the press. When every time that guy gives a speech he says Israel should be wiped off the face of the Earth.


Your angry because what Ed is saying is hitting too close to home. Think about it.

Did I not say in that mistranslation thread you could find another quote where he said something similar? That thread ended and so does this argument. It was one quote thats it. Yes I sit on the left of the spectrum. All I am doing is showing you on the right the other side of this and why they do what they do. Just because I'm showing you something means I advocate it? And I'm not angry because ED "was hitting it close to home" He was far from it in my opinion. I know everyone on the right champions ED and that's why when he says something it seems he speaks for all the conservatives..which, to me, is pretty funny because no one else has a opinion. I have my eyes open and I can look at myself and see that I in no way champion Laden and his rag tag team.

All I am doing is showing all of you what the information I have gathered over the years and placing it the way I see best fit. I in no way am attempting to say one side is better. In general I'd wish terrosim would stop so that everybody can see what the wrongdoings of foreign policy in the ME. But as of now, as all threads have done in the past when the debate shifts from the topic to the individual, this thread is once again showing why everbody thinks I'm wrong and a "idiot". Can one thread be a debate about a topic rather than attacking someones views and integrity? I don't lash out at ED's views saying "A black republican? I've never seen one of those before" or "The right is so stupid and arrogant" Enough is enough we hate each other and that's fine but rather than talk about each other - DEBATE THE ISSUE. That is all I ask. If you look at most of the threads in the past when the debate got heavy it was about the other persons views rather than the topic. One only has to look at the mistranslation thread, which was a mistake to post in the first place. So if anyone has anything relative to the topic then that's fine if not I'm out of here.

Colonel has a point with the "policy" argument. It goes both ways.

They should be punished, of course. But Machette, you did attribute something bad that a few guys did to an entire branch of the military, and it's obviously not like that.

And BTW, I'm pretty sure most Muslims don't embrace Communism or Socialism because central to both systems is the ideal of a secular state, and obviously most Muslim countries are ruled by theocracies so Islam and Marx don't mesh too well on religious levels.

[quote="TGB!":c94ff]

By all means MACHETTE - romanticize Bin Laden and his "war". Too bad you werent born in the 1930's and 40's. The NAZI's could have definitely used a PR man like you.[/quote:c94ff]

Someone disagrees with you? Compare 'em to a Nazi. Works like a charm. oOo:

Good ole Stewart summed up your kind quite well. rolleyes:

Like pointing out the cliche holds more value in the argument?

It seems to work for him on a daily basis. To many people on this forum try to be civil when it comes to politics with this giant typing douche, and he goes by the same formula every single fucking time. It gets sickening. TO make it worse, he has a small fanboy club which promotes his behavior, and it keeps going on and on. BE honest, was there really ANY point to making the Nazi PR comment ? none.

Please people lets not take this off the tracks. And I know c312 that just because a few bad apples did this doesn't mean it spoils the whole bunch. It's just a bad thing to occur, you are there helping these people and something like this kind of ruins the marines image or the military presence in general.

lollllll

ED as someone else said on this board you hold yourself higher than anyone else. You can't accept the facts yourself when something is pointed out to you. And when I said "the few the proud the marines" I was pissed at the war machine and I will not deny that, I thought anyone would have found that obvious. But the reason I posted it was to debate not to say hey look at this your wrong I'm right its all over. ffs I think that would be obvious to you who seems to be well educated. Plus that statement in a way can stimulate debate on this fourm. And enough of this "intellectual" bullshit, if anyone is attempting to see themself as a intellect on this board its you. Read how you post and how you bully people, its mere common sense to just about anyone. Look at all the people who champion you because you seem to speak for them. Enough is enough, I wasted words on you and you did the same on me. If I'm as stupid as you say I am why do you keep wasting your time on me? Is it a grudge? And because I dropped a literary figure to back a claim up means I'm attempting to be a self-proclaimed intellect...rightttt that makes plenty sense ED. It's more like backing a statement up. And you talking about acting as a adult, please, you only have to read the way you post in this fourm. It's essentially the tone that 'I'm right you are always wrong'. And I don't think you can deny that claim as well. I can atleast accept self-defeat unlike yourself. And I'll take the advice you gave me in the end. So that's that.

[quote="TGB!":1752e]

That thread ended when the irrelevancy of your "serious discussion" was brought to bear, and in the ensuing panic - your intellectual pride got butt hurt when everyone pointed this out to you. But thats usually what happens when so-called intellectuals try to "open the eyes of the unwashed, uneducated masses". They get exposed as the frauds they are. That you continued to equivocate and dance around semantics formed Eight and my assessment of you - but if you can enlighten us as to your dogged refusal to see what everyone else saw in the quote - please let us know.

can.[/quote:1752e]

You just described yourself.

You are a ex-marine? I would never have guessed. Not sarcasm either.

Anderson joined the marines to shag women in foreign countries happy:

Re: Vietnow
 

Exactly as TGB said... I highly doubt you said that to "debate" the issue.. oOo:

I said that because I wanted the thread to be locked form the first post. rolleyes: Have anything beneficial to the topic snipes? Rather than "I like what he said"

First of all, that's not what I said. Oh, and I'm sorry... is there something wrong with agreeing with him?... First you plainly insulted the USMC, then said that you did so simply to "debate"? I'm sorry but that really stuck out from the rest of the thread...

But I will say this - with any war comes innocent casualties, so this doesn't really come as a surprise - at all. I don't think it should for anybody.

And therefore meaning it should not be a discussion. Same idea as to the fire bombing of dresden. It's okay to kill that many people because, hell, it's war. This incident was raised in a TIME feature in april and showed that after the marines were attacked they strolled in this village and killed innocent people. This does not help America's image in Iraq as it is. When I saw this it reminded me of the My Lai incident which again fits into your blunt idea of "it's a part of war".

And I did say I was pissed and yes I disrespected the Marine's with my comments. However I am free to issue commentary the best way I see fit in my post. And I won't constrain my comments because a few marines here served time. Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion. Some people hate Canada on this board and when they say those things do I say "I live here, so show some respect" No because they can say whatever the hell they want. And issuing controversial remarks at the beginning of any thread can boost debate. But if you still think I didn't want to debate, why am I continually posting? oOo:

Well it is a part of war.

And I really hope you don't think that I'm saying that what those Marines did was "okay" because it's "a part of war" (as I said) simply because I didn't elucidate on that statement. Of course it was wrong - those Marines were wrong and I hope they get due punishment for their actions.

And I agree with you: this really won't help America's image.

I don't know.. maybe because I highly respect the Marines, always have.. Sure, insult those fuckers who did the killings all you want, I just didn't think you should insult the marines as a whole just because of those guys' actions.

And speaking of "everyone's entitled to their opinion"... Well what is your opinion on the Marines then? That they're all dirty bastard American scumbags? - just because of these few assholes? You'll probably say "Where the hell did I say that?", well yeah, you kinda implied it with your first comment - And that's probably why I got PO'd as well.

And I think controversial remarks are more likely to start a flamefest than something of a 'proper' debate. But whatever beer:

i think my topic was a little more cleansed...

when i first saw the story break on cnn the other day, i was in amazement. I thought to myself, 'how could they do this'? Why would they go into a house and kill 24 civilians including women and children in such a harsh manner!? Alledgedly shooting a a kid that was hiding under the bed, killing a man in the bathroom and then setting it a blaze, and many more atrocious acts. How could any Man bring himself to killing children? I can semi understand the how they'd be able to commit such acts on adults but kids!? Wow. I know about the x-factors that were involved ( guy being hit with an ied, possible depression, drugs, even dementia) but those are not viable reasons for someone to go and commit such terrible acts especially on civilians... 24 of them!! They'veinadvertenly gotten more of ours troops killed, recruited more al quada, caused high ranking military personel to resign, and of all, added a big red x on their own backs. I just hope that justice will be served in this case