When It comes to weapons and such, I think it would be interesting, fun and more realistic to present the weapons in the following fashion.

When walking, creeping, crawling and running the weapon in your hands will seem to float around. If you pull the trigger it will quickly attempt to line up with the estimated center of your screen and fire.

When you, for example are running around in a town, and find a German squad with it's back turned moving down the street, you can hold a 'Aiming' button much like in Goldeneye for N64, or Perfect Dark. When you do so, You bring the weapon up to your shoulder and cheek, and you actually aim down the iron sights, Or scope if equiped.

This way, you have better control over the weapon, then wildly aiming a weapon from your way lower right hip.

Plus in reality, if you want to hit something with a Pistol, rifle, submachinegun, Panzerfaust Etc, You will aim down it's iron sights. This is why you see those sniper army guys you see in them movies always look down their scopes to hit a target, instead of hiping the weapon and shooting a 2 and a half inch group at a thousand yards..

I totally agree with you on this Waffenampt. I've been playing Operation Flashpoint nonstop (well not really but you get the idea http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/smile.gif ), and if you've played it this kind of weapon handling is in the game and I love it. You have your normal view where you see the weapon held in your hands, then you have the weapon sights which add so much more accuracy, then ofcourse the scope. Operation Flashpoints weapon handling is done in a way that when you look around and move your rifle around it doesnt always move your view completely. You can still walk straight while moving the rifle around and not walk of track. I'm hoping something like this is in MoH:AA, if not I'll have to make do http://www.pcgamers.net/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by BallisticWookie (edited July 04, 2001).]

Wow that's a nice screenshot, that's the first time I've seen a guy with a walkie talkie or whatever they're called.

Actually, it's a radio. Also, the aiming right down the barrel only seems to happen when you drop to your stomach, you can see this if you watch the gamespy movie.
And you seem to have mentioned this, except for the radio thing, so I'll just go over here.
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I'd told you I'd shoot, but you didn't believe me! WHY DIDN'T YOU BELIEVE ME?

[This message has been edited by Kraut Killer (edited July 04, 2001).]

Well I knew it wasn't a walkie talkie, but I couldn't think of the name of it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When walking, creeping, crawling and running the weapon in your hands will seem to float around. If you pull the trigger it will quickly attempt to line up with the estimated center of your screen and fire<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i think they have done this already , except for that when your running and pull the trigger you automatically stand still and shoot instead of running and shooting at the same time . but you can shoot when walking though .


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>When you, for example are running around in a town, and find a German squad with it's back turned moving down the street, you can hold a 'Aiming' button much like in Goldeneye for N64, or Perfect Dark. When you do so, You bring the weapon up to your shoulder and cheek, and you actually aim down the iron sights, Or scope if equiped.

This way, you have better control over the weapon, then wildly aiming a weapon from your way lower right hip.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

its not like the screen represents Mike Powell's chest , it represents his face/eyes i dont think the weapon is at the lower right hip . plus if it were anymore higher it would take up too much space on the screen . i wouldnt mind having the weapon lined more to the center though , but then again i think it would still take up too much space .

and if you check the ingame footage or this screenshot you can see how centered your rifle gets when you are in the prone position . i wouldnt mind having an option to hold your weapon like that when your standing . but then again in close combat situations and when your walking , wouldnt you want to shift your weapon slightly to the side .

http://pcgamers.net/img/june20s2.jpg


[This message has been edited by Polaris (edited July 04, 2001).]

Kraut Killer: That radio is the SCR-300/BC1000 man pack radio, nicknamed the "Walkie-Talkie." So in truth riesep is correct, It's a Walkie Talkie.

The hand held SCR-536/BC611 radio was called the "Handie Talkie."

I reckon he did NOT know it was nick-named the "Walkie-Talkie" lol.

When I did research on the OSS I did read a little bit about how a few operatives communicated in the field. And I did read something about what they called a walkie talkie. I wasn't sure about this one though, but apparently I was correct. I did know that some soldiers called them walkie talkies though.

hmmm, well those are assumptions about the gun centering mind you...
it could be that the user is simply pressing the "aim" button if that does exist, meaining he went prone, and went to "aim" mode so he could target someone.

OR it could be what u said, automaticaly goes into center when u go prone....


we will just have to wait and see..

and i agree, i want to see the iron-sight type of aiming, especially in this game... mind you i didnt like it that much in Operation FLashpoint, i usually opted and just used my center reticle to zoom in and fire of shots.

but then again im a tard

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----Savour Since 1982----

My take on it is this: when you're walking or running with the rifle and not actively firing while moving, the barrel will be pointing more naturally (and comfortably) to about a 10 'o clock position (or about 45 degrees to the left of dead center) being right handed. If the soldier is left handed, then the barrel is pointing to about a 2 o' clock position. Moving it to a shooting position is quick and easy.
Obviously, when shooting, you're going to be looking right down the sights and rarely does one shoot from the hip. Audie Murphy, maybe, but not the average Joe. :-)
Dave T

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Thank you U.S. WWII combat veterans

DaveTinCT: Exactly! This to me would be very realistic. To walk around with the weapon at the ready is very difficult. A M1 Rifle is fairly heavy, and is very comfortably held just across the chest.

For large and bulkier weapons like the Mg-42 or Mg-34, It would be best to represent them as being over the shoulder. I mean It weighs 28 Pounds, and when marching and fighting all day, It wears you out. I think there should be a "Readying" button that would bring the weapon to your hip for close range firing, and then a "Laying" button, this would throw your body down, and you would look down the weapons sights as it rested on it's bi-pod.

For the .30 Cal Browning, It would be good if you had a No.2 Gunner that you could tell it were to set the Tripod, and then you could lock the pindle mount into it and fire it from its position. The .30 Cal Browning is a Support weapon, not a assualt one.

[This message has been edited by -Waffenampt- (edited July 05, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>For large and bulkier weapons like the Mg-42 or Mg-34, It would be best to represent them as being over the shoulder. I mean It weighs 28 Pounds, and when marching and fighting all day, It wears you out. I think there should be a "Readying" button that would bring the weapon to your hip for close range firing, and then a "Laying" button, this would throw your body down, and you would look down the weapons sights as it rested on it's bi-pod.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

how can they do this in a FPS game , i mean , how can you actually see yourself carrying those guns over the shoulder . the only way i can see this kind of weapon representation is in a 3rd person game . where you actually see your character holding the gun over the shoulder .

but anyway , in the ingame footage , in the beginging , you can see the guy next to you in the higgins holding his gun over the shoulder and in another screenshot you see a guy holding his gun over the shoulder too . so maybe its possible to do it , as in the same way you would press a button to put away your handgun or something .

I dont think we will be able to carry a mg34 or mg 42, dont know though

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http://303rdbga.com/303logo2.gif

Polaris: It's quite simple, just on the screen have the sholder stock and rearward part of the receiver pointing somewhat strait, like it was over your shoulder. If I as a person took the Mg-42 and shoulder slung it, I would see just that, and If it was my Left side, I would see the belt on ammunition leading into the weapons feed tray, and on the right the Bolt cocking handle and Etc.

Think about it, If you've ever carryied a long Two by Four over your shoulder, you dont need a 3rd person view to see it in your own hands.

yea , but its not like first person games simulate your complete field of vision . some peripheral vision is cut off . what i meant was 'how could it be possible to show your weapon being carried over your shoulder in a FPS without it somewhat cutting off your peripheral vision on the side of the weapon . since the angle of vision in FPS is limited , i would think that carrying a weapon over the shoulder would not be seen on the screen in order for it not to obstruct your view . an exaggreated example would be when you are carrying a bazooka in a FPS , most of the view on the side of the bazooka is cutoff . i would rather have my gun in the Ready at all times , or have the gun not show up on the screen when it is over the shoulder . but anyway , i dont think that the levels in this game will be that wide open where there will be alot of areas where no enemies can be found , where you would feel like putting your gun away , which is really what that feature would represent in this game . putting a handgun away , i think would be the same thing . and plus how often do we put our guns away in these kinds of games anyway . except for the undercover missions .

A 2.5 Inch Bazzoka or 8.8cm Panzerschreck, Would obstruct your overall view while aiming it. When carrying either of them naturally, the barrel would be lowered for ease of carrying, and to be able to see a little more clearly.

When carrying a MG-42, the backend is facing more or less at a downward angle, so, I can easly invision that not really at all blocking your view. It would be there, just like in reality.

Oh Yes, And walking a normal street Block with a MG-42 at the ready, would kill your arms. Are we supposed to be running around like John Rambo himself.

you totally missed my point Waffen .

and i bet you were just dying to bring Johnny into this conversation , werent you

look at that guy , imagine you were looking through that dude's eyes , would'nt he have trouble seeing to his right if the backend of the weapon was shown , wouldnt it be better not to show the backend at all ?

http://pcgamers.net/img/moh_003.jpg

and as you press the ready button you see the animation of your right hand pulling it down and your left hand grabing the barrel . then you would be ready to rock-n-roll Rambo-style .

and plz , i know thats not an MG-42 , i'm just using it as an example

[This message has been edited by Polaris (edited July 06, 2001).]

Polaris: I Am making Critical remarks and Suggestions, on how It could be a "Little more Realistic."

If you've ever seen the movie "The Keep" It is a horror film. A Typical horror film. BUT that didnt stop the Directors to get the very best Uniforms and equipment for the movie! The Gebirgsjagers where kitted out as if it was completly period and just dead on (Except one error, the SS men where still wearing the SS-VT Black uniforms, but I can see why the director did that).

If a stupied, stupied movie like "The Keep" something totally off it's genre can field the most authentic german soldiers in any movie ever, Why cant a "Action First person shooter" follow suit with these little details.

I know this game is not going to be perfect, but I looks very fun and interesting. I know I'm going to buy it.
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Burgen! Mg-Schutze Voran!

[This message has been edited by -Waffenampt- (edited July 07, 2001).]

Jawol!!! the first things that I look at when I am going to buy a WWII game are the german uniforms and gear. If the developers couldn't give up the hour to get research on the real thing then they don't deserve my cash.

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Ein Führer!
Ein Volk!
Ein Vaterland!

SS-PzGren

Polaris: That's not the shoulder position I am talking about. With the hand on the trigger grouping and the weapon laying bottom up like that, That's very uncomfortable.

I meant centering the weapon over your shoulder, with the trigger grouping just a few inches past the front of your chest, and the buttstock would end 6 to 8 inches after that. The weapon would be in your "Fps" syle of vision range, but not really taking up the screen. You can still fight with ammuntion displays and health bar super meters right? This would roughly take up the same amount of screen.

And like you said, when you would press the "Readying" button, you would, if it was slung over your left shoulder, reach up with your right hand and place it around the weapons top and your hand into the firing position on the trigger group. Then reach with your right hand back and grab midway down the barrel houseing and in one move bring the weapon to your hip.

Also, for best firing preformance, you could "toss" the weapon in the direction you are facing, and jump to lay down behind it and fire the weapon off it's Bipod.

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Another consideration is that if there are other Friendly units in action in the same area as you, If you layied down some fire with your recently "borrowed" Mg-42 or Mp-40, would you catch Friendly fire?

(It's like why alot of Americans in Vietnam in Line units didnt use distinctive Vietcong and NVA weapons, because their bark is very different from American weapons and would simply draw Fire on the Battlefield.

There are also accounts like this but on a lesser scale involving Mp-40s used by American and Allied Forces.)

[This message has been edited by -Waffenampt- (edited July 07, 2001).]

Everyone but Waffen: If you haven't carryed the the REAL THING (which me and waffen do regularly), quit bitching!

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SS-PzGren

hehe ...sure Bürgen

and yes , i agree that the "health bar super meters" would take up alot of area .

Waffen , ingame footage shows a soldier carrying a gun the way you described , i dont know what gun it is , maybe you can tell me , so maybe its possible to carry it like that .

[This message has been edited by Polaris (edited July 07, 2001).]

What does "ein" mean?

Waffen , honestly can you tell me if you've played any other MoH games ? cause in my opinion , i dont think this game is for you . i think you'd be better off with another type of game that deals completely with squad based fighting . solo missions arent for you , i'm assuming . you do know that these games are mainly based on solo missions right ? i think its been said before that it will be hard to make every level co-operable in multiplayer and that only 2 levels were definately able to be co-op'ed . they might have changed this by now , but this to me tells me that there's not a lot of squad fighting in this game . plus according to this statment , i think you were involved with , because it has Johnny Rambo in it ....

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Question: I saw the Medal of Honor movie - I think the normandie scenery is converted excellently, really impressive! ok, but the I saw the other in-game scenes and became a little bit confused : I thought you would be interested in creating sth like an "anti-war-game" , no game in which you are Rambo who shots hundred guys in mission on his own - i got this impression from the pictures. I hope this is not possible... so what are you planning? a simple first person shooter with WWII theme, or a war simulation like "Hidden & Dangerous" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>elmagoo: No this isn't designed to be a run-N-gun shooter. We're sticking to the original design philosophy of the PSX Medal of Honor titles, but enhanced for PC gameplay (and adding some new elements as well. Obviously a big limiting factor in console FPS's vs. PC is the controls. You have to account for clumsier controls on a console vs. the more precise control of a mouse and keyboard. That's not to say that console versions are bad mind you (I've totally enjoyed Medal of Honor PSX, as well as Goldeneye and TWINE for N64), but it is a design limitation that you have to take into conisderation when rounding out the gameplay. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


i just want you to realize what type of game your interested in and what type of game you should expect when this game comes out . so , no , its not going to be a johnny rambo game , and no , its not going to be a COMPLETE war simulated game , you do know that right ? the main character is an OSS agent , he is going to be undercover most of the time with specific missions to accomplish .

now that i got that out of the way , i think that , yes , friendly fire would be very nice , indeed .




[This message has been edited by Polaris (edited July 07, 2001).]

yes, umm i agree with all of that

i know shit about german... but isnt it "mein"?

mein fuhrer?

my etc etc

i could be totally wrong



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----Savour Since 1982----

"Ein" Means 1 (One) In German.