[MPowell1944]

I'll add to what Zoner said. What was said is exactly the kind of mindset all mappers should have. Looking the part but cutting down on the eyecandy is exactly what every map should be. The test version of your map is exactly as you say and thats what makes it so appealing to me. Kind of inspired me to work on a new map of my own. Anyone who makes maps and is reading this should take some of this advice. Might change the way maps are made from now on.

[Ydiss]

Your my benchmark, Zoner biggrin: The map runs fine on my system but I want it to run on lower end systems, such as the one I used to have.

When you play it I'd appreciate if you could give me feedback on the areas that you feel really under-perform, please.

Here are the asthetic bugs I've fixed already so no one else wastes time reporting them:

Incorrect texture on corner:

[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/Debug/bugs/Image1.jpg[/img]

Z-fighting in pub (highlighted in green):

[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/Debug/bugs/Image3.jpg[/img]

Missing clipping on back of car and missing curb brush under arch:

[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/Debug/bugs/Image4.jpg[/img]

Caulked face:

[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/Debug/bugs/Image5.jpg[/img]

Brush wrong length exposing caulk:

[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/Debug/bugs/Image6.jpg[/img]

Z-fighting on pub front:

[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/Debug/bugs/Image7.jpg[/img]

And lastly, missing "gutter" brush, exposing caulked roof:

[img]http://www.btinternet.com/~ydisss/Debug/bugs/Image8.jpg[/img]

All fixed.

[Ydiss]

Thanks again, MP. Despite my dislike of "altered" maps I have always thought your work was very good.

I have actually often wondered why you have never made a map of your own.

Having said that, the problem I faced before I started this map was one a lot of mappers must face this far on and that is "What do I map that is new?".

A lot of themes and ideas have been used already and the original stock textures have been raped, to be fair. In this map I had to look hard and long to find and use the textures and make the map look bright and different.

Something I've never bothered to try is to design my own textures (or even just import ready made ones - if only to give my map a unique theme).

I may just try that next time, but it will be much more time-consuming.

By the way, I have already drawn up a blueprint with pen and paper for my next map and it's a lot more ambitious than this one.

I'll let you know the details once this map is complete.

Just a small hint though is that it's based on a farm style structure surrounded by fields/forests and countryside. It'll be open but I have pre-designed it in such a way (hopefully) that will keep each area (of which there are 7) completely segregated, VIS-wise) from eachother.

It will be basically a central farm area surrounded by 6 sections (making a roughly oval shaped map) and is going to be very large.

It will be different to any country/farm/trench map out there, I promise.

All going well I'll start work on it next week. biggrin:

[Ydiss]

Ugh, just spotted a bit of a blooper. I thought I had covered the whole map for "escape jobs" but I have left one small area uncovered that will probably allow access (with the help of a team-mate) to run over clipping and off the map.

It's fixed, of course, and should be the only area of its type.

You don't have to look too hard for it, I'd prefer it if people test the map for its playability than to look for exploits (trust me, besides this one I have left no roof or edge uncovered by player clips). It's just that this part I have fixed was put in after I added player clipping (due to the VIS problems I had - in fact all of the errors you see pretty much so far are results of these alterations).

I've just run over the entire map and ensured it's player-tight now.

[Magnum]

Looks cool. I'll take a run through it ASAP.

[MPowell1944]

The reason I haven't made a map on my own is b/c of my lack of ideas for a map. I heard alot of folks saying how they like Stalingrad so thats why I spent all that time creating another version of that map. But after checking out your map I have decided to start one brand new of my own. Started on it yesterday and its coming along nicely. I have the road system setup and have started on the outer perimeter fake houses. Maybe I'll post some SS here shortly of some progress as you did with this map. Thanks for giving me some inspiration in the mapping department.

[Zoner]

Actually, Ydiss, I have a new machine now, so my days of 10fps are over...heh heh.

Still, I'd prefer to see 80fps than 30fps. biggrin:

[Ydiss]

Popped by the aM server at 1am GMT (about 8pm EST) and no one was on there

I need sleep hehe, so I'll see what you think tomorrow.

[Bleuachdu]

The new map rokks Ydiss, all of us aM were in there playing it earlier. Nice work. A custom map thats PLAYABLE. ed:

[Zoner]

Well, I'd say it was a success!!

We gave it a whirl Monday night and it ran VERY nicely! Ydiss said that he put functionality and gameplay over eye candy, and he was partially right. The gameplay and functionality part was dead on, but I thought the map LOOKED great as well. I was hitting well over 200fps in some places in the bar. I'd say the map averaged 55-60fps for me. Very nice.

It had a good combo of long avenues for sniping and rifling (w00t), and good close areas for the full-auto guys. My only gripe is that most of the exterior doors were locked and some of the breakable windows only showed black areas (because there was no room beyond it). Maybe Ydiss will open those buildings in future releases.

Overall, I think this one's a winner. I can't wait for the OBJ version.

[doomsday2002]

Well im on a lower end computer ...800mhz with 32 mb graphics card and I ran around this map and was consistanlty hitting over 40-50 fps which for me is excellent, I also add to the comments thats its a well made map and I would gladley lose some "eye candy" for a map that I can play.
Great job m8 and I hope you continue to make more.

dooms.

[wintersforge]

Wow. Nice big map. Favored medium and long ranged weapons. Once the melee broke out it was rifles, smgs, and mgs galore. Didnt see a single shotgun used. Rockets were only effective incertain areas.

This map favors team tactics. The lone wolf will be eaten alive. Had snipers providing cover fire and advanced medium range assault teams forward via the flanks. You literally fought for each block and advanced or retreated accordingly. Major choke point was the bridge near the Bar. I was able to nade over most of the walls as well which is cool for clearing out areas before advancing. I could see the use of shotguns in the interiors of the library and bar areas if teams were forced back. There was absolutely no spawn camping. This i dont see as an issue. FPS ranged from 30-100+ depending on what area i was in and type of melee. No issues there!! This is one map I would love to see adopted for TDM ladder and leagUe play.

In closing (and to finally get of Ydiss' cock) this was a well planned map. You seem to have developed a very basic and effective style for map making. You have a golden formula with this one. I enjoyed your first map, but this one is much better.

[Ydiss]

Thanks for the feedback guys.

Zoner, regarding the lack of interior for a lot of the map... This was definitely pre-meditaded and not just me being lazy biggrin:

I was conscious of performance, first of all. As soon as you break up a building with doors and windows you remove its LOS blocking ability.

If I were to add interiors to the buildings in the southern loop (opposite side to the Library) then this would reduce the whole map's performance and also increase compile times a ton.

The other reason is because I didn't want the map to be too complex. I wanted to keep it simple but flowing. Flow and connectivity are everything, in my opinion.

I originally had plans to make the Hotel interior accessible (Orange-red brick building in the South-West corner). I decided against it because I felt it would largely be unused (from experience).

You know the scenario... Someone makes it their goal to camp in one particular borderline building with only one door and some windows upstairs and the game degenerates into a cat and mouse affair.

"Who can hold the campspot longest"

I really wanted to avoid that and it's very difficult to make singular borderline buildings flow with the map. That is, players will rarely enter them to pass through them, they'll only go in to either camp or kill a camper (Very much like the Hotel in Bridge). Can you see what I mean?

So, I didn't use them. In theory this should keep the game moving

I wanted to force the players to keep moving and to use the centre of the map a little more. There are campspots, certainly, but I would hope that they aren't too secure (that is, you can approach each area from 2 or more angles).

But the main thing I wanted to avoid was making redundant areas.

However, I do still listen to feedback. So, could you maybe take a couple of pictures of buildings you felt you wanted to go into (that is, your instincts told you that you wanted to go inside) and post them here, please? I won't mind adding interiors providing I can do it without slowing the map down and I can prevent over-complicating the over-all structure of the map.

I will say, though, that it's a strong instinct of mine to not add too much more detail.

[Zoner]

That's all cool, Ydiss. I'm thinking that the locked doors were a bit of an aggravation the first time around since we didn't know the map. Now we know that most of the doors are locked, so we won't bother checking them. biggrin:

I seriously wouldn't change anything else with the map, aside from the few texture glitches you found yourself. It's a solid map that indeed has the flow you were hoping it would have.

I can see the pub being a great source of screenshot fodder too...heh heh.

[Ydiss]

Well at least the Allies will have an excuse if they lose a round in Objective... "I was in the bar!".

I put the objective right by the bar, actually. I'm gonna have to play "Bartender" in a game and camp behind the bar with a shotgun biggrin:

"Time, gentlemen, please!"

Boom, chichick, boom, chichick. "I said, time!"

Anyway... Both the DM and Obj versions are fixed and ready to go. I will release a quick test version of the Objective one just so someone can play test the scripting. The actual maps are identical besides the King Tiger.

Providing that all goes well I'll release both versions this Saturday.