What do you guys think.... - Page 6

SoLiDUS · 05-10-2003, 05:21 PM

[quote="Duke_of_ray":d787f]YOu want ecidence of God's exsistance? Well just look ate the world, its tangible. How could everything get so complex with out s supreme beign creating it? How could have all the particles that where part of the "Big Bang", if that really happend, been formed all on their own? Also read the Bible, just give it a good read, look at all the prophecies Jesus met, no man has done something likke that. Another thing is, look at a person who is truly save by Jesus, look how much happier they are, and how content they are, and how their life changes. Ask God to help you see Him, He will be more than happy to do it. [/quote:d787f]

Complexity of the world does not support the existence of a creational
entity: in fact, the Universe could just as well come from nothing at all.
You must agree with the following statement: if God can come from the
void, so can the Universe.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I agree, but if a creator
did conceive and materialize this world, Heaven and Hell were not included
in the phase following physical life, as freedom of choice would NOT have
a place in your Universe. I throw the ball in your court and invite you to read
the following book: THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE. It makes much more sense
than the bible ever could. Do you honestly believe that an intelligent deity
would only give his children one life to prove themselves worthy of his land?

Lastly, if there really was evidence of a supraphysical force, philosophers
and men of the mind would have known about it and we would all have to
hear about it in school... but that would limit our freedom of choice, hence
why I believe we will never know whether a deity is behind the creation of
this Universe or not: this is the only argument in support of your position.

Pyro · 05-10-2003, 05:22 PM

lol, why does anyone even try to argue with Solidus

SoLiDUS · 05-10-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pyro

lol, why does anyone even try to argue with Solidus

Because it's an honor to go up against the Master biggrin:

Old Reliable · 05-10-2003, 05:23 PM

just let someone think what they want

Duke_of_Ray · 05-11-2003, 08:35 AM

[quote:37e9d]Complexity of the world does not support the existence of a creational
entity: in fact, the Universe could just as well come from nothing at all.
You must agree with the following statement: if God can come from the
void, so can the Universe.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, I agree, but if a creator
did conceive and materialize this world, Heaven and Hell were not included
in the phase following physical life, as freedom of choice would NOT have
a place in your Universe. I throw the ball in your court and invite you to read
the following book: THE FREEDOM OF CHOICE. It makes much more sense
than the bible ever could. Do you honestly believe that an intelligent deity
would only give his children one life to prove themselves worthy of his land?

Lastly, if there really was evidence of a supraphysical force, philosophers
and men of the mind would have known about it and we would all have to
hear about it in school... but that would limit our freedom of choice, hence
why I believe we will never know whether a deity is behind the creation of
this Universe or not: this is the only argument in support of your position. [/quote:37e9d]

God did not come from nothing, He has always been here, yes it is kind of hard for humans to comprehend, I will admit. :) You may not like the fact, but God did create Heaven and Hell, and you have a chioe of which one to go to. Also, God does give us only one life tp "prove" oursleves, and we do not even prove ourslves, becuase nobody is good enough to be with God, but becuase He loved us so much, He gaves us a way to be with Him ,and thats Jesus Christ. You can not prove yourself to God, but just accept Him. It is so easy, its not even about works, but just accepting Him! You will never be able to work your way to God, so there is no use trying, its a waste of time, why not just accept God, and live with the peace that you know where you will go when you die? As for the man of the mind, and philosophers go, just becuase they study alot, does not mean they know alot. A man of 1st grade eductaion who accepts Christ is millions of times wiser and smarter than one a man of great learning who rejects Him. If you truly accept Christ,you will know there is a God.

[DAS REICH] Blitz · 05-11-2003, 08:38 AM

hake:

MrLevinstein · 05-11-2003, 08:56 AM

Dude you are brainwashed, it reminds me of the Simpsons episode with the cult

Now stop sending me PMs I don't want to see the "light"

05-11-2003, 09:27 AM

[quote="Duke_of_Ray":2f9c9][quote:2f9c9]few typos[/quote:2f9c9]

Yea, I can not type to good, probably should start using home row.

[quote:2f9c9]Unfortunately, that is your contention, and only a contingent truth.
Furthermore, I ask you to present this so-called evidence of a deity
or creational entity: I'm not honestly asking, because I know for a
fact that you cannot provide any factual / tangible evidence but just
humor me for a moment, if you can. [/quote:2f9c9]

YOu want ecidence of God's exsistance? Well just look ate the world, its tangible. How could everything get so complex with out s supreme beign creating it? How could have all the particles that where part of the "Big Bang", if that really happend, been formed all on their own? Also read the Bible, just give it a good read, look at all the prophecies Jesus met, no man has done something likke that. Another thing is, look at a person who is truly save by Jesus, look how much happier they are, and how content they are, and how their life changes. Ask God to help you see Him, He will be more than happy to do it.

[quote:2f9c9]OK, the bible says God is loving and forgiving. Therefore God must have created us because he loved us and care about us.....then he suddenly leaves us to fend for ourselves! (look at the state of the world around you) Then theres the concept of all those who does not believe about him or know him must suddenly go to hell to suffer eternal pain and damnation. Now what kind of caring and loving father would do that to his children and send them to eternal pain. Its simply ludricious. The whole concept of heaven and hell therefore to me is fake, you know how the church in the past has so clearly altered the bible mixing it with other pagan philosophies in order to fit their selfish needsn. This whole heaven and hell thing was in my opinion put in order to control the kings and queens from breaking away from the church.
I'm sure there something far more unique than "beleive in God and you will goto Heaven, dont beleive in God and you will burn in hell". Its jsut that the bible has been altered too much by man to gain power....as usual. [/quote:2f9c9]

Well, God does love us, and has not left us here to fend for ourselves. As for thoe who do not believe, then yes they do go to Hell, but you cannot say God does not love us, becuase He gives you an easy way to Heaven, just accept His son, Jesus. The Chruch has not always represented the true face of Christ, and thsi is really sad becuase of all the people they hurt. Now you might say, well some people never hear the message, well for tose people, I believe if they live justly they to will see Heaven. So like it or not there is a Heaven and there is a Hell, its up to you which one you choose to go to.[/quote:2f9c9]

you still havent answered my statement. How do you know there is a heaven or hell? If GOd loves humans why does he send them to hell for eternal pain. As I said the bible these past few centuries have been clearly changed by other pagan philosophies (for example trinity) how do you know all this thing is true. If the church has not represented the true face of christ than this whole thing aint true since nearly all we learnt was from the church.

Duke_of_Ray · 05-12-2003, 04:19 PM

[quote:ca727]you still havent answered my statement. How do you know there is a heaven or hell? If GOd loves humans why does he send them to hell for eternal pain. As I said the bible these past few centuries have been clearly changed by other pagan philosophies (for example trinity) how do you know all this thing is true. If the church has not represented the true face of christ than this whole thing aint true since nearly all we learnt was from the church. [/quote:ca727]

When I say the chruch has not always represented the true face of Christ, I am mainly speaking of the Catholic church in the Early days of Europe, cursedaes, how they tuaght people in the wrong way, and things like that. Most chruches do represent the true face of Christ, but if no Chruch did, you still have your Bible, the most important things for people. How do I know there is a Heaven or Hell? I know becuase I have accepted Jesus, and when you trully do this, you will know there is a Heaven and Hell, maybe I can not prove it to you, but I do know.

The Bible has been changed over time, just not majorly, The Kings James Version, and The NIV both are pretty accurate to the old text, plus they have found the dead sea scrolls, and the NEW testament was written in Greek. SO I believe we have very accurate Bibles today, that still deliver the message. God loves Humans, but if you sin, which we all do, you will go to Hell, unless you accept Jesus as your saviour, then you will go to Heaven. We as Humans are sinful, so we cannot make it to God alone, thats what Jesus is for, the price for our sins, a way to spend eternity with the Lord. Its like a choice between peace or hell, and its not a very hard decision for me, anways.

SoLiDUS · 05-12-2003, 05:48 PM

The key statement: he can't prove it, but he KNOWS it to be true. That is a
very dangerous thought, Duke. In any case, I've expended enough energy
here... so someone please take over for me!

angel:

Totenkopf · 05-12-2003, 07:34 PM

I am really gonna try and stay away from the religion debate on this one.

I am not going to tell a lie, death is one of the few things that absolutely scares me. Why? Because, I do not believe in the afterlife, reincarnation, etc. I just haven't seen anything to give me believe in these things.

In college, I studied anthropology. In my courses we studied belief systems of every culture, as well as the evolution of man. Now, I don't want to stir a huge debate here, but the facts that were presented to me lead me to this belief. Humans are to put it bluntly, animals. We did not arrive here from some higher power, we are the result of natural selection. Over time, our brains devoloped as our bodies became weaker.

Eventually our brain size became large enough for us to become abstract thinkers. A natural question arises when you reach this level of thinking. Why am I here? What happens after death? Fear arises when there is the unknown. So we devoloped stories, rituals, etc. to ease those fears. These over time led to the major religions of the world that we see today. One can see the evolution of religion over time, much like our societies. Starting as myths, primitive stories by the hunter gatherers that grew more complex as we settled into agricultural based socities. Religion was many times used to manipulate only what a small few wanted out of the great many.

I cannot simply have "faith" in a higher power when it is not tangible to me. I have tried, but it is only an affront to leasen my fears of the unknown and I recognize this. When my grandmother died, I had many problems coping with her death. About five months after it happened, I had the most intense dream I had ever had. In it, my grandmother looking about 25 approached me and told me not to worry about her anymore, that she was in the happiest place she had ever been. I awoke feeling grateful, but as the years have passed, I feel that it was just my subconcious helping me along with my grief. Nothing more.

So, I am not one to turn to for words of comfort when trying to understand death. The only thing I realize is I love life so much, and I am trying to enjoy every bit of it that I can before I go. biggrin:

snipeymagoo · 05-12-2003, 08:45 PM

death does scare me.......I am a christian and believe in Jesus Christ, I so believe I will goto heaven when I die. Some of you might say, how do you know that blah blah, well, if you ever read the bible, the things that are happening now, are told in it, told of plagues *SARS, AIDS, etc.*, wars over bablon(dont know how to spell it) and that is in Iraq, if you read the maps throught out history you will see, so Im not trying to spread christianity in here, im just saying what i believe and what makes since to me, but all in all dead does scare me.

guarnere · 05-13-2003, 01:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snipeymagoo

death does scare me.......I am a christian and believe in Jesus Christ, I so believe I will goto heaven when I die. Some of you might say, how do you know that blah blah, well, if you ever read the bible, the things that are happening now, are told in it, told of plagues *SARS, AIDS, etc.*, wars over bablon(dont know how to spell it) and that is in Iraq, if you read the maps throught out history you will see, so Im not trying to spread christianity in here, im just saying what i believe and what makes since to me, but all in all dead does scare me.

but if you think of it...why is this happening now, and to us...couldnt it have happened lets say...years ago...or, years to come....bah, im down with death now....it just took me a while to let it sink it....ill die, everyone will die....it happens....so im going to make the most of it....

i just had the most amazing night tonight....my band played with 3 other bands for a thing called the "KRockathon band search". And what this is, is a thing where 48 bands compete...and then 16 are chosen to go forward...after that.....1...so, were pretty sure we made it because of the response we had...wow, its the best ive ever felt...i felt sooooo alive on stage singing in front of everyone....mmmmmmmm, i gotta go....email me pm me or im me if you want our songs biggrin:

bye byeeeeeee

TheAlliedGirl · 05-13-2003, 11:01 PM

[quote="Duke_of_Ray":31884]
Well, as long as you believe in Jesus, and accept Him you will be fine. You might say, your shoving your belief down my throat, but I am not, I am trying to hel you out. You may not believe exactly how the Chrucrh you go to does, thats no big deal, the main thing is to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Yes the ROman Catholic Chruch has done many bad things, but if you really want to see the true face of God, read the Bible and go to a good Christian chruch, not saying catholics are not Christians, but I would say its best to go to a Chruch that is not as big on traditons and works, but one that teaches the Bible and does work out of the good of their heart, not so they will get you to heaven. Works will not get you to heaven, only accepting Jesus. It does not matter whether or not you get baptized, although its good to, and as for the people of the other religions, well if they have rejected Jesus, then the will be going to hell, but for those who have never heard, then I believe God judges them justly.If you ever have any questions just PM me, and Ill do my best to awnser.[/quote:31884]

Its by Faith that we believe! And the keyword is "FAITH". Faith comes by hearing and by hearing the word of God. Dont expect to be full of faith by hearing it 1 time. When He does call on your life...YOU WILL KNOW IT. Then you have a decision to make. I'm sure that some get many and some get few chances to make the right choise. See, true Christians will not shove religion down a persons throat, or not say anything at all. The Lord will make an oportunity for a Christian to tell the truth of the gospel to someone. They will listen or they will ignore and tell they are not intrested. Jesus told his deciples to let them be if they refuse to hear and for them to knock the dust off there feet and be about there way. I THINK THAT THE DUKE has done that here! God does love cause, he's give every person freedom of choise. He's not twisting any arms to accept His Son.

He said, He'd take the Sting of Death Away...... That's Peace enough for me!

Ok go ahead and flame.... not watching the topic anyway.

LoneGunner87 · 05-14-2003, 09:56 AM

That is true becuase i am a christian myself. I pray very often but i hardly go to church but i do believe in god.