[IwoJima]

Say, who thinks the germans could have won the war if they had not invaded russia, and kept its best troops on the western front? I for one think they would have put up a much better fight, its seasoned troops were in russia, something like 60 percent of its forces were fighting in russia. the other 30 training troops defending the french coast etc. So still, they put up a very good fight still, with only 30 percent of forces! So who says they couldn't have even invaded north america with the help of the japanese and taken it over? The USA was too weak at the beginning of the war. It was allowed to much time to build its forces up. What do you guys think, invasion? or beaten back the same way?

[Hells-Angel]

I rather think about how much the allies kicked ass and not how I could be speaking german right now.

[Polaris]

they maybe would have won normandy if they had those panzer divisions in time to defend the cost

and come to think of it , i wouldn't be alive today . so i got that going for me

thx Hitler for sleeping late !



[This message has been edited by Polaris (edited June 21, 2001).]

[Wolfshook]

Well, invade North Africa, and take the rich oil fields of Egypt, with more than a pitifully small "sideshow" force, and they create a headache for the British. Unable to use the Suez Canal, the Commonwealth begins to crumble.

Invade Russia, without the idiotic death orders to all "sub-humans", and they get a population willing, able, and ready to fight for Germany. Seen as liberators, millions of Russian men would have volunteered for the German army and/or Waffen SS. This, IMO, was Hitler's biggest mistake.

His actions and orders, on the Eastern Front, doomed his men to fight against partisans for the rest of the war. If he had come as a liberator (even if he'd been lying!), he could have gained millions of men to use in the Wehrmacht. These men could have been used to counterract the massive reserves that the Soviet Union had.

Or, invade Britain. This would have taken foresight, to gear up the Kriegsmarine to produce transport craft. I do not think that the Kriegsmarine needed to match the Royal Navy ship for ship. With Germany's surface fleet, U-Boats, and Luftwaffe' bombers dedicated to subduing the Royal Navy, the Luftwaffe's fighters could have fought off the RAF. I am sure that Germany would have suffered very high losses, but so would Britain.

With the Royal Navy and RAF tied up, landing craft could have begun the invasion of southern England. A surprise landing could have been done on northern England, by way of Norway. Two landing areas, would have put a strain on Germany, but I think it could have been accomplished. Again, heavy losses, but I think in the end, with the state of Britain at the time, they could have won.

A win in the east, means Germany can annhilate any Allied landing in Western Europe. A win in the west, means Germany can dedicate even more divisions to invade Russia (however I think they would still have to come as "freinds" to the common people, so as to reduce partisan activities, and increase voluntary manpower).

IMO, of course.

------------------
34. SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Landstorm Nederland

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue"

[BlueDevil]

It goes both ways my friends. What about if the allies navy would have hit there mark on the beaches of Normandy? They overshot the beaches by I dont know how far! But yes, Hitler made SEVERAL mistakes with his strategy on the war. His army would have been more successful in Normandy if his punk ass would have woken up and given orders and approved of axis movements. And yes, I do agree that the nazis really screwed up by trying to fight enemies from two directions at the same time by attacking Russia.

[Polaris]

lol, and they were afraid of waking sleeping beauty that day

[Ludacris]

it wasnt hitler that was sleeping late, i cant reember who but watch the longest day and it talks about it, but it wasnt hitler.

[Recycled Spooge]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ludacris:
it wasnt hitler that was sleeping late, i cant reember who but watch the longest day and it talks about it, but it wasnt hitler.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> hehe, I think that's the movie he is talking about, and it was Hitler though.

[BlueDevil]

yeah it was Hitler. They didnt mention his name in that particular part of the movie but they continuously said the Furrer <---- once again probably horrible spelling-- and Adolf Hitler was the Furrer of Germany.

[Gen. Rommel]

Germany could have won the war...easily. It Adolf Hitler would have let his generals do the fighting the Axis would have won the war.

When Germany invaded Russia, Hitler should have had all his Panzer division concentrated on Moscow, just like the Panzer commanders wanted. Hitler needed to crush the spirit of the Russian people, this could have easily been done with the destruction of Moscow. In fact, Hitler planned to turn the entire city of Moscow into a giant reservoir. The Russian spirit crumbles and the Germans crush any force left in the country. This could have been done easily since morale in the army was at its lowest.

Or of course Hitler could have taken key islands in the Mediterranean, such as Crete which was a critical island for British supply lines. Take that island and the Brits fall.

Or maybe Hitler could have decided not to invade Russia, although Russia was planning on invading once German was busy with counter-attacks towards the Allied forces. But maybe if Hitler had decided not to invade those Panzer division in Normandy would have crushed the allied invasion.

The battle of Dunkirk. The war had just begun and the Brits were evacuating. A personal order from Der Fuher was not to fire upon the escaping troops and civilians. But if he had fired upon the convoys he would have destroyed the British spirit to fight and the Battle of Britain could have been won.

IMO, of course!

[Phosphoric]

IwoJima, the German troops are of the highest quality in the WWII-era in my opinion. They can beat anyone 1 on 1, but you simply can't sustain a war against the whole world, I don't see the Germans winning anyhow, even with the Japanese on their side.

------------------

[Wolfshook]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ragnar:
The main reason he didn’t, was the allied bombing of Germany. The intention with the bombing was to destroy the German war industry. There was a side effect of these bomb raids, and I ‘m not sure that the allied forces were aware of that before after the war.

Hitler was forced to keep a major part of his army back in Germany in order to maintain the air defense. These raids were very unpredictable, and to keep a strong defense all over Germany you need “tons” of soldiers.


Source: Albert Speer. “ A prisoners diary”.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

??The Luftwaffe maintained all air defense in Germany...the army didn't. Although very good at air defense, the Luftwaffe were not soldiers. Seeing how the Luftwaffe field divisions did on the Eastern Front, I find it hard to believe that Hitler lost, because the Luftwaffe was defending against bombing raids?

Maybe I've misunderstood, but the bombing raids didn't hold any soldiers behind the lines. Things like partisan activities ate away at Germany's manpower.

Maybe you mean the attrition on Germany's pilots? Allied bombing did nothing to stop Germany's war production. It was higher in 1944 than at any other time. However, allied bombing wore down the Luftwaffe's fighter pilots, and ate away at their strength day by day. At the beginning of D-Day, the Luftwaffe on the Western Front was non-existent.



------------------
34. SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Landstorm Nederland

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue"

[Ragnar]

Have you heard about flak?

Read the book.

[Wolfshook]

Uhhh, yeah, and FLAK were manned by the Luftwaffe, not the Heer.

------------------
34. SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Landsturm Nederland

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue"

[Ragnar]

Hitler did many tactical mistakes during the WWII.
He was indecisive, and didn’t listening to his generals.

His biggest failure was when he established a second front with declaring Russia war.
The German army wasn’t prepared for the Russian winter, and the supply lines didn’t work.

However, he could have won the battles on the eastern front and possible the whole war.

The main reason he didn’t, was the allied bombing of Germany. The intention with the bombing was to destroy the German war industry. There was a side effect of these bomb raids, and I ‘m not sure that the allied forces were aware of that before after the war.

Hitler was forced to keep a major part of his army back in Germany in order to maintain the air defense. These raids were very unpredictable, and to keep a strong defense all over Germany you need “tons” of soldiers.

If Hitler had been able to use those soldiers on the eastern front, then I’m afraid the outcome of the war would have been something else.


Source: Albert Speer. “ A prisoners diary”.