BoB: did Spiers really gun down those kraut prisoners? - Page 2

Von Paulus · 12-15-2002, 09:47 PM

Yes, not even Spiers himself knows... oOo:

Actually I think he may have died, because the only quotes from the book that I can remember were from old interviews Stephen Ambrose had with him...

And Spiers has never admitted it, or denied it... So the question stands open, let's see what he says about it...

::Awaits reply from Spiers::

12-15-2002, 10:22 PM

he's a war criminal then

BallisticWookie · 12-16-2002, 01:17 AM

He's not a war criminal, because the evidence is so lacking that any charges against him would be thrown out in court. No evidence, no proof, no charge, no crime. Also I think he well and truly redeemed himself of any war crimes commited through his actions throughout the war. Who are you to call him a fucking war criminal ? eek:

Add to the fact, that they had no real means of keeping German POW's locked up, no rear echelon to send the prisoners too, and the Para's were'nt moving back, they were moving forward. Keeping German prisoners with them would have been a burden to them, downgraded their combat effectiveness and been just a plain 'ole pain in the ass.

The Counter-Sniper · 12-16-2002, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitz

he's a war criminal then

We should bring some charges against him, all we need are witnesses. . .Oh, wait, they're all dead. freak:

Tripper · 12-16-2002, 01:30 AM

[quote:dac71]He's not a war criminal, because the evidence is so lacking that any charges against him would be thrown out in court. No evidence, no proof, no charge, no crime. Also I think he well and truly redeemed himself of any war crimes commited through his actions throughout the war. Who are you to call him a fucking war criminal ?

Add to the fact, that they had no real means of keeping German POW's locked up, no rear echelon to send the prisoners too, and the Para's were'nt moving back, they were moving forward. Keeping German prisoners with them would have been a burden to them, downgraded their combat effectiveness and been just a plain 'ole pain in the ass. [/quote:dac71]

If it is true....It is something I wouldn't condone nor, disagree with, that is, if I were another member of the company. It's just one of those things. It's inhumane, yet, unavoidable...So if it did happen, I have mixed thoughts on the actions, he certainly did redeem himself from what I've read/watched.

People aren't war criminals until they are declared guilty in a military court.

The Counter-Sniper · 12-16-2002, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallisticWookie

He's not a war criminal, because the evidence is so lacking that any charges against him would be thrown out in court. No evidence, no proof, no charge, no crime. Also I think he well and truly redeemed himself of any war crimes commited through his actions throughout the war. Who are you to call him a fucking war criminal ? eek:

Add to the fact, that they had no real means of keeping German POW's locked up, no rear echelon to send the prisoners too, and the Para's were'nt moving back, they were moving forward. Keeping German prisoners with them would have been a burden to them, downgraded their combat effectiveness and been just a plain 'ole pain in the ass.

I'll say this. I certainly would not have condoned what Spiers did because I have always said that one of the things that separates a soldier from a common mercenary is that he/she obeys the rules of war. However, under the circumstances that the 101st found themselves in, it's not hard to understand why Spiers did what he did. It's easy for us to judge because we were not there. I don't think any of us here have the right to question what those men did, because who is to say what we would have done.

BallisticWookie · 12-16-2002, 02:14 AM

I dont condone the shooting of POW's either, but to be combat effective, you cant be trudging along the country side hauling along all surrendered soldiers if there's no sure fire way to be able to secure them. The POW's they did capture would have been a security risk, not to mention a risk to their lives if they had continued to move on with them.

Frankly, I dont think Spiers did it. He was a good soldier, not a butcher. But if he did do it, he had his reasons, and possibly would have recieved confirmation from higher up to shoot them.

Tripper · 12-16-2002, 02:19 AM

[quote:1a16f]I dont condone the shooting of POW's either, but to be combat effective, you cant be trudging along the country side hauling along all surrendered soldiers if there's no sure fire way to be able to secure them. The POW's they did capture would have been a security risk, not to mention a risk to their lives if they had continued to move on with them.

Frankly, I dont think Spiers did it. He was a good soldier, not a butcher. But if he did do it, he had his reasons, and possibly would have recieved confirmation from higher up to shoot them. [/quote:1a16f]

Yup, this what I was trying to say....(Your first paragraph)....Good call on the second paragraph, also.

Von Paulus · 12-16-2002, 05:20 AM

As is said in the book Band of Brothers, regarding this incident (Or something to this extent)...

"No person who has never experienced the horror of combat, and the effect it can have on individuals, has the right to judge what individuals who have experienced it first hand's actions are..." You just don't know how you would act in the same cirumstances, who knows?, not even you do.

12-16-2002, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BallisticWookie

Add to the fact, that they had no real means of keeping German POW's locked up, no rear echelon to send the prisoners too, and the Para's were'nt moving back, they were moving forward. Keeping German prisoners with them would have been a burden to them, downgraded their combat effectiveness and been just a plain 'ole pain in the ass.

Then the Malmedy massacre is acceptable.

Jedi Marksman · 12-16-2002, 08:30 AM

Blitz, you're missing the entire point. No one is saying Spiers was right if he did it, and if he did it, it was certainly NOT acceptable. However, there is no proof that Spiers massacred German prisoners. The Malmedy massacre DID happen, but that was perpetrated by Waffen SS who, in my opinion, were beyond soldiers, they were more akin to cyborgs.

Bazooka_Joe · 12-16-2002, 11:46 AM

Don't you watch the damn show? The other soldier was right there, and he saw it happen! Sheesh. . .

con Brio · 12-16-2002, 01:41 PM

[quote="ST_Bazooka_Joe":46c2b]Don't you watch the damn show? The other soldier was right there, and he saw it happen! Sheesh. . .[/quote:46c2b]

where in the book is this?