Pray long and hard.... - Page 3

Gr@yh@wk · 01-03-2002, 07:30 AM

spammer

Colt · 01-03-2002, 09:22 AM

Fraggie wasnt spamming, he was just posting useless replies to boost his post count, the criminal...

Wait, I just did the same :P

btw: lol @ 3/504th-Cpt.Knight's pic

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"The pessimist sees difficulty in every opportunity. The optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty." - Winston Churchill

westfrontpunk · 01-03-2002, 09:51 AM

bEWare of the wrath of westfrontpunk!

-edited-

EDIT: Stop that, i told u once!

[This message has been edited by Skidrowpunk (edited January 04, 2002).]

Wolfshook · 01-03-2002, 11:39 AM

Yes, every Waffen SS soldier was brainwashed to fight for his country. That makes about as much sense as saying every American was brainwashed for doing the same thing.

I don't expect you guys to understand though...it would help if you read some about the Waffen SS before you made blatant generalizations of the military organization, however.

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34th SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Landstorm Nederland

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue"

Gr@yh@wk · 01-03-2002, 11:59 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Colt:
Fraggie wasnt spamming, he was just posting useless replies to boost his post count, the criminal...

Wait, I just did the same :P

btw: lol @ 3/504th-Cpt.Knight's pic

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

u just gave the defenicion of spamming dude....

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Gr@yh@wk · 01-04-2002, 01:21 AM

aren't we getting a bit offtopic?

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Wolfshook · 01-04-2002, 03:30 AM

I believe you answered your own question. Of course they believed in Hitler to a certain degree...how much each man did, no other man can say. It is not stretching things far, however, to say that they believed in what Hitler was saying about Communism.

They were lied to...I never said they weren't. Hitler was a sick man, and drove Germany into ruin. But, you cannot say that the people who believed in him, and fought for Germany, or their own country's within Germany's armed forces, were psychotic, brainwashed, or anything else. It's all a matter of what kind of culture you grown up in, and most people really don't understand what it was like for most Germans at that time.

There were a lot of people, in other countries, who saw Germany, and Hitler, as uniting against a common foe...Communism. These people, whether intentionally or not, felt that whatever Hitler said, they felt that fighting for him was the best thing. They had two choices, fight for Germany, or fight against Germany. They all knew that fighting against Germany, meant fighting for the Allies, which mean fighting to aid Communism, because Russia was backed by every single Allied power, during WW2.

It is not really as simple as saying they were brainwashed, or warmongers, or that they loved Hitler. It was a lot more complicated than that.

For most Europeans, who volunteered to fight for Germany, whether it be in the Luftwaffe, Heer, WaffenSS, or Kriegsmarine, it was a easy choice, when you looked at Communist Russia, and all that they stood for. People really lose sight of the fact of the things that Russia did before, during, and after the war. Can you really say these men were wrong in making this choice?

They were doing the right thing, in their own minds. I cannot judge a man's decisions, unless I know that man personally. I cannot ever know what it was like to grow up living in Europe, at that time.

We all know what Hitler did during the war, sitting here in 2002. But, you cannot expect the people living during that time could even dream of that happening. Did any of you ever really think an airplane could plow into the WTC? Yet people talked about a terrorist act against the WTC all of the time. It's the same thing here. Of course Hitler used Anti-Semitic speaches, but do you expect that most people really thought that Hitler would go to such extremes to kill all Jewish people?

The young men and women who ended up fighting for Germany, weren't listening to a radio out in the field, while they were getting their *** shot at.

Some people are to blame, I'm not saying they aren't. Alot of German people did know what was going on, and didn't speak out.

The Waffen SS were no better or worse than any other fighting force, for any other country. Allied forces committed atrocities, the same as German ones. Human beings are all the same, and the Waffen SS was no different.

Decoy · 01-04-2002, 04:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by mi_trooper:
Oh My God, 3/504th-Cpt.Knight (or whatever your name is),

I love your edit!

Seriously, I think those SS troops were the worst and most brainwashed of them all!
And I want to do to them what the men of Easy Company did in 'Band of Brothers'!
You know in episode 5 ‘Crossroads’, a whole company of SS troops is mowed down!
Talk about a ‘Turkey Shoot’ hey!

I would join any allied attack force to get those slimy bastards, good soldiers or not…NOW WHO’S WITH ME?!?!?!

***MI TROOPER***<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"SS troops were the worst and most brainwashed of them all!" hey thanks alot im in the SS!

*note* see sig

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-Waffen SS-

3/504th-Cpt.Knight · 01-04-2002, 06:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Wolfshook:

It is not really as simple as saying they were brainwashed, or warmongers, or that they loved Hitler. It was a lot more complicated than that.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm sorry to make you post such a long post Wolf. I do understand and agree with what you are saying, maybe I just didn't get it across in my short posts.

I believe that most people are like sheep in the respect that we all need a shepard to follow. I'm sure that if I was living in Germany before WWII, in the horrible living conditions, starving and cold because of the shakles put upon my country by the rest of the world, I would listen to and follow a man who told me what I wanted to hear and made promises that he delivered. And I would join the WaffenSS, Kriegsmarine or other German miltary unit to fight for him. Who knows, I might have been one of the bastards turning the valve on for the gas chambers. But I wasn't and my family history makes me a little angry at the Nazis.

My family is from Poland. Yes, we were the retards that charged the Blitzkreg tanks on horseback. (But you have to admit, that took some balls!) My father was born in 1940 and lived in Warsaw. Now there are two things that make me snap sometimes at people who seem to exhalt what the Nazis did.

The first is the fact that 6 million Poles were killed by the Nazis. Yes, 6 million and the reason people don't hear about that is because they were killed by firing squad and not in gas chambers. They were not taken to concentration camps. They were forced out of thier villages and lined up in front of pits, which they dug, and then they were shot and buried. The next day, German families would be trucked in to live in the newly unoccupied homes.

The second is that my father's oldest memory is of when he was three years old. He remembers himself screaming out of a second story window at his father, my grandfather, as the Nazis shoved him into a truck. He was being taken to Germany to work in a labor camp. My grandfather built bridges and buildings for the Germans and when the war was over, he when to the US. I can't even begin to understand the how traumatizing that event was for my father.

Please dont get me wrong Wolf, I know you are not holding high the atrocites that the Nazis did and I in no way am exhalting the atrocites done against the Germans by Allied forces. I just want you to understand where I come from.

I understand, respect and agree with your point of view and I hope that we are friends.

Sorry about this moderators. I think this thread got a little off topic.

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3rd Battalion
504th Parachute Infantry Regiment
82nd Airborne Division
"The Blue Devils"

[This message has been edited by 3/504th-Cpt.Knight (edited January 04, 2002).]

Recycled Spooge · 01-05-2002, 12:13 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>Originally posted by Decoy:
"SS troops were the worst and most brainwashed of them all!" hey thanks alot im in the SS!
*note* see sig
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And I'm a Pokemon master! You're not in the actual SS. Can I at least see a website that can prove to me that such a clan exists? Anyway, you are not brainwashed since you don't live in the 30's and the 40's and in Germany.

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If you're so good at being a lesbian, then why do you turn me on? -Steve Carell(The Daily Show)
YOUR FAVORITE BAND SUCKS!!!!!!! - Me.

Wolfshook · 01-05-2002, 12:49 AM

I understand you, Knight. The Russians did the same thing to the Polish, and it was a horrible thing that happened.

I have an interest in the military war of WW2...not the politics, not the nazism, nor the despicable acts that happened. I don't ignore those things...but I also don't have a sick fascination with that stuff, either.

I totally respect, your a very level headed guy. Thanks for the discussion, it has been a good thing, not a bad one.

I simply like WW2, and am amazed by the human element of what it took these young people, from both sides, to go to war, and actually fight against each other, in the most devastating war the world has ever known.

To IHaveNOFriendsAndISuck...your
generalizations, show your age. Come back when you've grown up, and read some books, about World War II.

Thanks.

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34th SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Landstorm Nederland

"Meine Ehre heißt Treue"

IHaveNOFriendsAndISuck · 01-05-2002, 11:43 AM

theres no way of getting around it.. the ss is overated. they where weak. The belief that they were amazing fighters is just like the belief during ww2 taht japan's navy was invincible