[Hotspur]

Siggi says: >How about washing windows, does that require skill? Or peeling an orange?<

But of course they both require skill! If you don't believe me, try this experiment.

1. Go buy a bottle of your favorite hard liquor.

2. Hide the car keys.

3. Drink the bottle.

4. Peel the orange, or wash the windows, or play MOH.

5. After recovering from your hangover, cut fingers (from peeling the orange) lacerated face and arms (from falling through the window) and being bailed out of jail (for shooting the computer) post your conclusions on this forum.

If you have honestly completed these steps, you will have proven to yourself (at great cost) that skill is involved in each of the activities you mentioned.

[SoLiDUS]

I'll just buy the bottle and drink,
thanks



[This message has been edited by SoLiDUS (edited January 05, 2002).]

[SS.SGW-Siggi]

I said it was impossible to do it consistently unless one is cheating. There's luck obviously.

Now I have to wonder...if a player knows it's impossible to do it consistently, why would he choose to arm himself with a sniper rifle and run around like a storm-trooper with it? Unless he knows he's got special powers and can adequately defend himself with it?

I introduced DiD into online simming and I guess I play with a particular kind of mind-set; I try to keep it 'real'. I don't assault buildings with a Panzerschrek. I don't bunny-hop. And I don't use a sniper rifle on a map the size of a small park. People who do piss me off, I have to admit. Especially when they consistently run and hit while zoomed-in...cheating in other words, per my posts above.

If you want to play like a sci-fi prick, piss off and go play quake. Stop invading every new frigging game and turning it into a kiddy's circus.

Ahem.

I don't read you say? So you do? If so, why are you still asking me for the name of my server when I posted it last night along with a time and invite to come play?

We will never agree on this subject. You want to believe the impossible is possible in these types of games, I just call a cheat a cheat. Do you really think a cheat would fess up anyway? Catch one out, what's he gonna say..."Fair cop guv, take me away."? Of course not. He'll spin you a line of bullshit a mile wide, how he's been "practicing for weeks" with the sniper-rifle, how he "just happens to have the knack" or how he's "got this real incredible mouse". I've heard all the BS and lies more times than I can remember. I've seen aimbots and hacks in use more times than I can remember. And I've seen cheats using the sniper rifle in impossible situations to kill in MoH.

Nobody, fighting within the limitations of this game, would willingly choose the sniper rifle unless he knew he had an edge. It's a stand-off weapon, and on the two current maps there is NO room to stand off. But with a hack? No worries. You get to have your cake and eat it...just what a cheat lives for.

Server name: Siggi's UK DSL CPR

I'll turn it on shortly, so come get me.

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[SS.SGW-Siggi]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hotspur:
Siggi says: >How about washing windows, does that require skill? Or peeling an orange?<

But of course they both require skill! If you don't believe me, try this experiment.

1. Go buy a bottle of your favorite hard liquor.

2. Hide the car keys.

3. Drink the bottle.

4. Peel the orange, or wash the windows, or play MOH.

5. After recovering from your hangover, cut fingers (from peeling the orange) lacerated face and arms (from falling through the window) and being bailed out of jail (for shooting the computer) post your conclusions on this forum.

If you have honestly completed these steps, you will have proven to yourself (at great cost) that skill is involved in each of the activities you mentioned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does acid count? Me and my bro did a nine-hour session on acid about a week ago and cleaned up. Hard liquor was also consumed, but I don't think it connected for obvious reasons.



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[Hellbaby2065]

Umm... How do you know they're zoomed in?
Are you watching their screen? Guess YOU'D be cheating then, and a great cheater at that!

Actually, I find the sniper rifle to be a great weapon without the scope. It does much more damage than the rifles in regular games, just a lower Rate of Fire.

[SPRAYnPRAY]

Ydiss, give it up. Siggi will never get it. I guess being sensible requires too much "skill".

[jonesy-the-cat]

Okay, here's an example of skill in MoH...

Patience.

Different people have different levels of patience. This is a skill they have developed. In real life, this is a valuable skill. In MoH, it is also valuable. The impatient player runs straight at the enemy every game, averaging 1 frag per game (1 to 1 kill/death ratio). A more patient player is willing and able to wait, and racks up 2 or 3 kills, frequently surviving the whole game (and thus depriving someone else of a frag). I have seen it over and over. In fact, this quality alone accounts for much of my success in MoH. No offense to the many mature kids out there, but I'll bet the average age of patient players is significantly higher than the average age of impatient players. So this aspect would tend to favor adult players. Yet after playing MoH for a while, a player may actually learn the value and enjoyment of patience, and develop more of it. This can then pay off in the real world.

So patience is an example of a skill that affects your ability in MoH, and you can develop in MoH, with benefits in the real world.

[SS.SGW-Siggi]

How about washing windows, does that require skill? Or peeling an orange? Or playing MoH?

It's still my opinion that MoH takes no skill, but I have to modify or qualify that statement now by saying that the people I've seen playing it must be abnormal or playing under abnormal circumstances. If they can't master a game as simple as MoH there must be something wrong with either them, their hardware or their connection.

Air combat sims, the ones where you get no missiles, THEY are hard...some of them anyway. Any sim by MS is dreck.
Just staying alive in a WW2 or WW1 sim is hard, never mind getting kills in it. But it's a 3D environment which is exponentially harder to master than an FPS's 2D environment.

Somebody said the CS crowd had taken-over MoH online. I don't agree. I never saw ANY dominant players in CS, everyone had topped-out. And I've played on hundreds of different CS servers, against thousands of different players. I don't see that in MoH (suprisingly).
As for regarding anyone who beats me as a cheat...nuts. The only time I was getting beat in this game was before I knew about the skin pak and had invisible maggots whupping on me. Now I've got that sussed I'm not getting whupped anymore.
Aimbots...only the handicapped would actually need them. Once enough practice has been had with MoH accuracy is a breeze. Poor code?

What we may be seeing here is the effect of quak-style players having the brakes put on them. Reaction-gaming has been supplanted by thinking-gaming in MoH...it's not enough to be good at running around like a headless chicken reacting to a cattle-prod. In MoH you do actually have to think about what you are doing. There isn't much to it after you've done that, admittedly, but it sure beats the crap out of quake. Beats the crap out of bunny-hopping CS too. The best thing about MoH is the bunny-hopping BS don't work. I've seen a few twats trying to import that style but they gave it up pretty quick.

Sniper rifle. You'll have to excuse me here but as far as I'm concerned the ONLY way anyone can be consistently good with it against MOVING targets is with an aimbot hack. Anyone who tells you different is a liar and probably a cheat. This isn't a skill thing, it's a code thing. Everyone I've spoken to at the cafe says there is something porked with the 'ballistics' model re the sniper rifle. If the target is static, no prob. MoH's laser-ballistics are fine. Otherwise forget it.

Shotgun...no probs. Ditto SMG's and StG44/BAR. Except the BAR has too little recoil.

MoH is extremely crude and presents little challenge. But it's fun, like Tony Hawks is fun on the PS1. I'll carry on playing it for light relief. I need that after flying an official Il2 mission.

I'll try and hook up with you guys via GameSpy some time.

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[SS.SGW-Siggi]

I strongly suspect that the honest players are in a definite minority these days. FPS's were hack-infiltrated a long time ago and it's practically traditional to arm yourself with one. Combat has become more about who's got the best hack rather than who's got the most 'skill'.

It's a very sad state of affairs, and probably explains why earlier attempts to introduce online tournaments for this genre have quietly vanished. Nobody of any repute can be arsed any longer to make the effort for a tourney that would be nothing more than a shallow farce.

No worries. I'm a simmer, and apparently we have a sim that is hack-proof. Ahem. We'll see. While we're finding that out we're having a blast in the Virtual Eastern Front mega-multi-player online war. Don't ask me for details, we try to keep it under wraps. Why? Lol. Think about it for a minute or two and I'm sure you'll figure it out.

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[This message has been edited by SS.SGW-Siggi (edited January 05, 2002).]

[SS.SGW-Siggi]

I've been having a go on GameSpy.

Almost none of the servers run the CPR mod. In my opinion non CPR-modded games are a total farce: "Ooh, I put half a clip into my enemy, that's alerted him to turn round and put half his clip into me. If I'm lucky I'll get the rest of my clip into him while he's doing it and win." Not to put too fine a point on it...phak off.

Aimbots are being massively used by the sniper-wannabe's. Sniper running, target running, sniper fires one shot, target dies. I'll put a VERY fine point on that one...phak RIGHT off. Puh-LEESE don't tell me "Some have that skill". Next you'll be telling me it's possible to put a blind man in a coal cellar at night and have him insert a dime up a black cat's arse to hear it sing Dixie. THE MoH CODE DON'T MAKE SUCH SKILLS POSSIBLE, END OF STORY! Clear enough?

Moral...don't run and snipe at the same time against a moving target, you WILL reveal yourself for the aim-botting cheat you are.

Lag...anything over 100Ms, don't bother...you'll be nothing but a target (a poor one, but easier to be hit than hit anything yourself).

Non-CPR games are a waste of my time, they are a joke. CPR games are almost realistic enough to be challenging. Almost. But they ARE fun.

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[[5DV]Scorpion]

Long assed post dude, i read it, and read no replies because it was too long, long but good.
I get the same flack myself. I guess good players are cursed by it.

Scorp.

[Ydiss]

Firstly, Crapspy blows hard.

Download All Seeing Eye as soon as you can.

Secondly, you see you're doing it again. One minute you come out with a statement that makes me think that perhaps you are an experienced and decent player (at any game) but then you go and ruin it.

You don't have to believe me, as I know you won't anyway, but this is exactly why I feel you can be beaten.

You're too negative about what someone can do. You've already proven to me that you don't know everything about Medal of Honor, as you think that mobile sniping is impossible except for aimbot users.

Funny thing is, even someone using an aimbot could miss while moving with a sniper rifle zoomed in as it reduces your accuracy drastically. So even if the aimbot has you aimed right at your target the game-code could still make you miss.

Mobile sniping is very hard to do, and it's much easier to just move, stop, snipe than to snipe while moving, but it can be done if you practice it enough.

I agree sniping while moving and trying to hit a moving targe it largely a luck thing, but aimbots don't make it possible, either.

Strafing across a static target and sniping it when your cross-hair closes on it is possible, though.

I've seen it done many a time, as I have with sniping a moving target. This player isn't using an aimbot.

Anyway, get rid of Crapspy and download All Seeing Eye and come give us a game. If you have to start your own server then that's fine, but let us know when and where.

Edit: Actually, to make it easier, could you post what name you usually play MoH under (exactly), please? Can find you then, wherever you play.


[This message has been edited by Ydiss (edited January 05, 2002).]

[astro_nomenoff]

Ah Hannover, I just left the server where you were cutting me down wherever I was.

My excuse is that my mouse is lame and screws up my aiming!

FF: well, if you want TOTAL realism then play as the Yanks and make sure you accidentally TK now and then. It wouldn't be a proper war without Yanks killing each other and their allies!

[b0n0]

Ive been sniped by running and strafing players a couple of times too, and im not talking about up-close. I think some tweaking of the sniper-rifles needs to be done for sure. Or maybe there are some people out there, that has more help than others...

[Ramza]

I enjoyed reading Hannover's post, as I found it very interesting, and at the same time very true. I do my best not to complain if at all possible. Losing is part of the game, these people need to learn to deal with it.