Length of the War? - Page 2

Hmmmmm · 03-14-2003, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wintersforge

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hmmmmm

Err..nooo..... The two situations do not even compare. In Stalingrad, they (Germany and Russia) were both fighting for control of the city. If anything it's more like Leningrad, but I see the Iraqis surrendering long before they can break the siege. We are capable of firing precision guided munitions to take out key buildings, enabling us to demoralize them and convince them to give up. This way, we avoid having street-to-street battles where our forces are most vulnerable.

Er yes. Siting Beevor's Stalingrad as reference. Axis Bombed the hell out of Stali creating the pockets of resistance and areas in contention. Leveled the city. Russians used the rubble as cover and were able to hold off superior forces and numbers. Also relocated C&C to various locatiuons when being overun. they relied on being resupplied across the Volga..but i digress (and if oyu would like to debate this further we can start a topic over in History forum, but Eastern Front is a hobby of mine since Im Hungarian). Public opinion, and politicians will not let people be starved into submission. That would be a horrific political and humanitarian nightmare. Not like war isnt both anyway. The metaphorical alliteration to Stalingrad was missed by you my friend. The urban fighting and collateral damage, as well as civilian deaths would be catastrophic, unless and unconditional surrender is guaranteed....

GG Hmmmmmmmm

You just proved my point right there, pal. The Germans did not surround the city and force them to surrender. This option should be used to avoid urban fighting. I frankly don't give a shit if the Iraqis are stupid enough to resist. Our soldiers are worth more than them, to me. Your "metaphorical alliteration" is completely off. The whole idea in surrounding the city is to avoid street fighting like what occured in Stalingrad, Mogadishu, etc.. Again, the fighting in Stalingrad and the strategy I proposed would not even compare.

wintersforge · 03-14-2003, 05:13 PM

I absolutely see your point in the use of encircling the mote. My argument that taking Sadam's crown jewel and the siege of Stalin's namesake are as follows:

-first the assumption that a prolific air campagin is used by US as publicly stated parallels the used of von Richthofen's Stukas and the first few days of the beginnings of the siege.

-Russian civillians were not evacuated but most were mobilized into fighting units. This parallels the deployment of weapons the Iraqi regime has undertook in the past few days as well as not letting any Iraqi civillians to leave the city (stated in the press as branded a traitor; also parallels the Stalinist regime's use of Comissars at the beginning of the Stalingrad campaign.

-street to street fighting...nuff said

Now i dont see the hardline Iraqis just giving up? Would you? Im sure they will have someone reporting back to the Intelligence minister on moral and then the killing of supposed "traitors" will take place....drawing another parralel with the Stalin Regime and campaign of Stalingrad...

The German troops were not prepared for the urban fighting and "loathed house to house fighting." You think the US will be able to stroll down the street...no...it will be house to house combat BUT the US has taken steps to prepare for this type of warfare...MOUT as an example...

I think i have provided enough "clarification" why I think it will be similair to Stalingrad and drew the parallels for all to see...I just hope it doesnt come to this style of fighting. Alot of death....

SoLiDUS · 03-14-2003, 05:16 PM

Invasion and fighting: 3 weeks

Control sweep: months

geRV · 03-14-2003, 05:18 PM

and now for my contribution

BELLLLLLLLCHHHH

thank you

/leaves thread.

oOo:

Hmmmmm · 03-14-2003, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wintersforge

I absolutely see your point in the use of encircling the mote. My argument that taking Sadam's crown jewel and the siege of Stalin's namesake are as follows:

-first the assumption that a prolific air campagin is used by US as publicly stated parallels the used of von Richthofen's Stukas and the first few days of the beginnings of the siege.

-Russian civillians were not evacuated but most were mobilized into fighting units. This parallels the deployment of weapons the Iraqi regime has undertook in the past few days as well as not letting any Iraqi civillians to leave the city (stated in the press as branded a traitor; also parallels the Stalinist regime's use of Comissars at the beginning of the Stalingrad campaign.

-street to street fighting...nuff said

Now i dont see the hardline Iraqis just giving up? Would you? Im sure they will have someone reporting back to the Intelligence minister on moral and then the killing of supposed "traitors" will take place....drawing another parralel with the Stalin Regime and campaign of Stalingrad...

The German troops were not prepared for the urban fighting and "loathed house to house fighting." You think the US will be able to stroll down the street...no...it will be house to house combat BUT the US has taken steps to prepare for this type of warfare...MOUT as an example...

I think i have provided enough "clarification" why I think it will be similair to Stalingrad and drew the parallels for all to see...I just hope it doesnt come to this style of fighting. Alot of death....

My point is that if they simply encirlced Baghdad and do not use air strikes and do not enter the city, then urban fighting (and the relationship to Stalingrad) can be eliminated altogether. If I was an Iraqi facing starvation, I think I would take the easy way out and hang Saddam in the streets. But who knows.. maybe they are dedicated to Saddam.. It all depends on whether the Iraqi people see us as liberators or an invading force. We'll see how it pans out...

Old Reliable · 03-14-2003, 09:26 PM

I dont think current american military policy would call for the leveling of many buildings anymore

11 Bravo · **Iraq -** 03-15-2003, 12:23 AM

Invasion: 5-10 days
Occupation: 1 1/2 years
Showing the world the weapons Saddam has been hiding, and then shoving them ALL up the UN's ass: PRICELESS

**Re: Iraq -** 03-15-2003, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC11B

Invasion: 5-10 days
Occupation: 1 1/2 years
Showing the world the weapons Saddam has been hiding, and then shoving them ALL up the UN's ass: PRICELESS

WELL SAID...I AGREE COMPLETELY

JowShmoe · **Re: Iraq -** 03-15-2003, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC11B

Invasion: 5-10 days
Occupation: 1 1/2 years
Showing the world the weapons Saddam has been hiding, and then shoving them ALL up the UN's ass: PRICELESS

i just hope we don't find out about them as they rain down on our troops. my say is 2 weeks of heavy fighting, +1 week of minor conflict.

Tripper · **Re: Iraq -** 03-15-2003, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUTCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC11B

Invasion: 5-10 days
Occupation: 1 1/2 years
Showing the world the weapons Saddam has been hiding, and then shoving them ALL up the UN's ass: PRICELESS

WELL SAID...I AGREE COMPLETELY

[img]http://www.dodstudios.net/uploads/uploads/capslock.jpg[/img]

03-15-2003, 02:49 AM

thw war in iraq will be about 6:41 hours

Bleuachdu · **Re: Iraq -** 03-15-2003, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFC11B

Invasion: 5-10 days
Occupation: 1 1/2 years
Showing the world the weapons Saddam has been hiding, and then shoving them ALL up the UN's ass: PRICELESS

What happens if Saddam doesn't have weapons? I'm a Bush supporter and I believe we should go to war soon. However WHAT IF... The US could be in a bad place if we don't produce some evidence after the war.

Old Reliable · 03-15-2003, 04:17 AM

make some up

11 Bravo · 03-15-2003, 05:08 AM

Thats the last thing I'm worried about. They WILL find weapons. It's just a matter of finding them out there buried under the desert, in garages, bunkers, trailers, basements, you name it. With no more restraints from Saddam, we will be free to look just about anywhere in the country for them. None of this bull, "Oh, today the inspectors can only look over there!". Plus, a lot of people don't realize it's not all about the weapons. As of now, the Iraqi People are tortured and oppressed. They are crying out for our help! For God's Sake, a dozen of their regular army already tried to surrender to British Forces out on patrol the other day. They can't wait to get out from under Saddam's stranglehold. I'd say 75% or more of the Reg. Army will surrender in the first few days of fighting. The only one's left will probably be the Republican Guard and very few other small groups.