United - Page 3

Ydiss · 03-21-2003, 05:59 AM

[quote="Fluffy_Bunny":37f4f]Why are there so many damn rice throwing liberal commies in my country? I didin't realise how many ppl opposed the war until I went to university today and saw them all walk out.

WTF

Get a backbone people![/quote:37f4f]

Exactly what does courage have to do with being pro-war? I'm brave therefore I want people to die. Sure...

Based on your post I presume you don't have children? I am to be a father shortly and it's sad that I'll likely have to bring up my first kid in war-time.

I just hope it's all over before he|she is old enough to understand it all. I hope even more that there will be no reprecussions.

I'm all for stamping out terrorism but what bravery you are displaying by being pro-war, especially as you're only a university student, I don't know (or are you a teacher? Doubtful).

Are you going to fight in Iraq?

I'm not Liberal (I voted for Labour in 1997, although never again - All parties are the same - let 'em do what they want) and I don't imagine I'm a picket fence type (I don't have the time to protest to anything) but I'm never going to be pro-war.

Blair is paid to do his job and it's a bloody hard one. He can never please everyone, but then who could? I don't have anything truly against what he's doing, he's better at his job than I am. After all, he is only doing what every single anti-war person is doing, standing up for what they beleive in. However, I don't have to agree with it.

It's pretty sick to see normal civilians of any country spout crap about how people are weak for not wanting war when they themselves will never have any involvement in the war whatsoever.

If a British Para knocks on my door tomorrow and tells me why I have no backbone I might actually listen to it (although the very people who will do the dirty work are probably a lot more philosophical about the whole thing than the sabre-rattling public who think they're tough and strong willed).

Until then, go back to your studies and be a good lad.

If you got put on the streets of Baghdad with a gun and got told to go kill Iraqis you'd shit your pants.

Backbone my arse.

Ydiss · 03-21-2003, 06:31 AM

Oh, and I may be anti-war but I'm not saying the war isn't needed. So don't bother going on about why we're attacking Iraq, how evil Saddam is and all that shit. It gets old.

We're at war, there's no other way around it. It's happening and that's the way it is.

I am not saying people don't have the right to be pro-war I'm just fucking fed up with all this bullshit about pussy this, weak that, French owe this, bollocks that.

Broken fucking record.

The French people don't agree with your beliefs. Nor do the majority of the world. What do you care?

Get over it and stop sulking about it. You got your war, what does it bloody matter?

=FM=1st Lt prey · 03-21-2003, 06:33 AM

[quote="I'm HUGE!":0fecb]Funny....I don't see many of his neighbours helping the US remove this "direct threat". Excluding the US, who's actually supplied troops again? 45,000 from the UK and 2000 from Australia...!? [/quote:0fecb]

They are not in the position to, do you really think they want to invite Sadam to launch gas/chemical attacks on their doorstep also?

[quote="I'm HUGE!":0fecb]Well, I suppose "terrorist funding" is a subjective term....I'm sure there are millions upon millions of Muslims out there who would class the USA's constant supply of $$$ and military equipment to Israel as "terrorist funding".[/quote:0fecb]

Your an Idiot for even comparing the two, a country that prevent terrorism and a country that premotes brainwashed individuals to strap kilos of explosive around themselves with the hope of killing as many civilians as possible are a world appart.

[quote="I'm HUGE!":0fecb]I thought the US was going to war because he has weapons of mass destruction? (and oil of course!)[/quote:0fecb]

It is going to war for this reason, or maybe all that passed you by in your ignorance to the real world?

[quote="I'm HUGE!":0fecb]Ahhh yes.....who sold him the WMD's again....?[/quote:0fecb]

Thats like saying if you sell weapons to a country, you expect them never to turn-coat on you or have a change of policy, again ignorance on your part.

You can never determine how a country will react a few years later let alone a decade.

Your whole argument is bullshit anyway because you fail to see/or plain ignore the key danger, which is Sadam.

Do you even know ANYTHING about the state of Iraq? I wonder, I wonder if youv seen how he executes anyone that disagrees with him? Even his own parlament.

This madman already gassed his own people and funds terror groups, if/when he could provide terror networks with these weapons he will, and they will kill alot of innocents.

People like you make me sick `Im HUGE` because you cant see past your own bullshit, you go on repeating the same useless information and conspiracy theories whilst flattely refusing to address the real issue. mad:

=FM=1st Lt prey · 03-21-2003, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ydiss

Oh, and I may be anti-war but I'm not saying the war isn't needed.

Your a bigger fool than you look then, talk about a contradiction hake:

You can hide in your safe nottigham house while the rest of us try and justify why our brave forces are risking their necks for the free world, to keep you safe and warm in your bed at night.

You should be ashamed of yourself, you should be supporting them if thats your real view not sitting on that comfortable fence sniping comments at the rest of us.

Ydiss · 03-21-2003, 08:42 AM

You can't read one line and imediately draw conclusions about that person. Please read everything I've said before you do that.

I am anti-war because I don't like war. I'm not just against this particular war.

I am not saying this war isn't needed, but then I am not saying it is, either. That's not my job. I am, as you so eloquently put, sat in my safe Nottingham house (Or, more accurately, Nottingham office building, I'm at work).

I'm joe public. I am not a soldier and I have no aspirations to be one. Nor am I a politician. I did not vote in the last election so I do not have a say in what happens with the current government, either.

If Britain, America, France, Germany, Russia, Australia or any of the other Allied nations were being attacked and there was a mass mobilisation to snuff out the threat then I'd support that with all my heart.

That's not happening. Bush and Blair are pre-emptively attacking, in their eyes, a known threat. I'm not going to contradict that because I am not a politician, I am not into politics and I am not into reading up on all the facts about it.

I have more things in my life to worry about. If you want me to worry about Iraq then you can forget it. But I will be saddened with every death I read or see reported in Iraq, just like I was saddened when I saw 9/11. Just like any normal and reasonable person who has a conscience would do.

I am not contradicting myself at all.

I am stating two facts:

I do not like war.

It is not a sin to be against war.

Anything wrong with that?

You have your views and that's fine, you're entitled to them. You have your own facts (although they are not all the facts, you cannot fool anyone that you know everthing about the situation) and you believe in them.

Although I don't agree with you I do see your side of it. I was moved by 9/11 greatly and was proud when our nation stood behind America and supported them.

For what it's worth I paid money to a fund ran here that went directly to the charity set up to aid the famillies affected by that tradegy.

Small an amount as that was it was all I could do to add my support because I don't like seeing anyone die and I don't like seeing anyone hurt.

No amount of money from me would really help to console those affected by 9/11, though. Nor would it help the thousands that will die in the next few months, either.

See where I'm coming from?

9/11 was something I felt moved to support, however. This war is not.

If you think I'm a bad person for that then there's not much I can do about it.

=FM=1st Lt prey · 03-21-2003, 09:51 AM

Thats ok Ydiss you got your opinion like iv got mine, its because we live it a country free from dictatorship that we are allowed to argue and hold protests etc

I just have a real hard time with people who sit on the fence over issues this important, sometimes we have to look a little further than our office wallpaper or garden pond.

We are at war now yes, and all the more reason to give the men and women who are fighting from our countries the full support they deserve.

No-one in their right mind would support bombing of civilians, and im confident that our leaders will do their upmost to prevent this from happening.

Its strange because as soon as one american bomb hits wide of its target theres up-roar yet when these rogue states launch missiles into neighbouring countries, randomly into civilian populated cities like what happened yesterday in Kuwait, noone says a word.

Its even more amusing watching the `human rights` demonstrators here in the UK screaming abuse at the prime minister, and supporting Iraq with one of the worst human rights attrocities in the modern world.

People like this do not have the IQ to realise that as soon as Sadam Hussain is toppled, the people of Iraq will face a promising prosperous future, because dispite his dictatorship keeping all the oil money to himself, Iraq is a very rich country. Its just this maniac in control who is pushing all the funding into warfare instead of health + food programs.

Ydiss · 03-21-2003, 10:07 AM

[quote="=FM=1st Lt prey":830a1]
People like this do not have the IQ to realise that as soon as Sadam Hussain is toppled, the people of Iraq will face a promising prosperous future, because dispite his dictatorship keeping all the oil money to himself, Iraq is a very rich country. Its just this maniac in control who is pushing all the funding into warfare instead of health + food programs.[/quote:830a1]

I truly hope so and as fast as is possible.

If that is the result, then I will be happy, despite any losses along the way. But there is no guarantee of this happening.

There are no guarantees in war.

It's not like I'm completely and deliberately ignorant to this war, it does affect me otherwise I'd not post here about it. I have feelings about it but I'm not educated in the issues at hand enough to feel I can say anything for, or against it.

You do see my point in what we disagree, though. You dislike that some groups of people will sit on the fence but I firmly believe that, not only do they have the right to do that, it is not a bad thing to do.

Everyone has to make decisions in their lives based on what they believe. It doesn't mean it's the right decision.

Put this into the current context and you could say the French are wrong for not supporting the war because Iraq could sell WOMD or they could instigate more future terrorist attacks.

At the same time the French may be right to stay put as this war may result in horrible attrocities and end up with no positive result anyway.

You cannot firmly say that this war will have a happy ending (indeed, it's still relavent that in war no one wins, no matter the result). You can also say that if there is no action taken (whether through the military, or through diplomacy) then the problem is unlikely to go away.

I truly hope it does have a happy ending and it does go away. If it does then I imagine my viewpoint on Blair and Bush will change considerably, but then that's public opinion for you.

Blair still has a shitload of issues to solve in his own country and this war will not help one single bit in acheiving the solving of those issues.

I just hope it's as quick a war as it can be.

I don't have a great deal of conviction in that hope though.

Until that lack of conviction is categorically proven wrong there is no way I'll be convinced to be happy (or supportive) in any way, shape or form that this war is happening.

I'm glad we can agree to disagree biggrin:

I'm HUGE! · 03-21-2003, 10:19 AM

[quote="=FM=1st Lt prey":7778d]They are not in the position to, do you really think they want to invite Sadam to launch gas/chemical attacks on their doorstep also?[/quote:7778d]

He had Chemical weapons in the 1st Gulf war and lots of Arab countries publicly supported the US led coalition - what's changed? This time around it's different, they're not supporting the action because they, and the majority of the permanent members of the UN, don't think the action the US/UK is taking is justified.

[quote="=FM=1st Lt prey":7778d]Your an Idiot for even comparing the two, a country that prevent terrorism and a country that premotes brainwashed individuals to strap kilos of explosive around themselves with the hope of killing as many civilians as possible are a world appart.[/quote:7778d]

[b][i]You[/i][/b] might think that Israel is a country that prevents terrorism and that the Palestinians that resort to suicide bombings are "brainwashed" but I'm sure there are many Palestinians and people in other countries around the Middle East that see the bombers as freedom fighters and Israel as terrorists - that's why I used the word "subjective". From your point of view [b][i]your[/i][/b] opinion is correct and theirs is wrong, but [b][i]they[/i][/b] would argue the exact opposite - they are right and [b][i]you[/i][/b] are wrong. No rights, no wrongs, just different opinions.

[quote="=FM=1st Lt prey":7778d]It is going to war for this reason, or maybe all that passed you by in your ignorance to the real world?[/quote:7778d]

Ummm no, learn to read. In your original reply to me you said "He[b]will[/b] obtain weapons of mass destruction at some point".

[quote="=FM=1st Lt prey":7778d]Thats like saying if you sell weapons to a country, you expect them never to turn-coat on you or have a change of policy, again ignorance on your part. You can never determine how a country will react a few years later let alone a decade.[/quote:7778d]

Sorry you seem to be forgetting something. Saddam used the chemical weapons against his own people towards the end of the Iran/Iraq war, who was arming/supporting Iraq at the time? Ahh yes the USA. And what did the US do/say when he gassed his own people? Absolutely nothing - that what! No public statements condemning his actions - why? - because he was our little buddy back then. Now were using the gas attack/chemical weapons as a stick to beat him because it suits the US agenda (oil).

[quote="=FM=1st Lt prey":7778d]This madman already gassed his own people[/quote:7778d]

Yeah and the United States wouldn't do anything like that I suppose?

[url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,721898,00.html"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/international ... 98,00.html[/url]
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/ ... 56751.html

Zoner · 03-21-2003, 10:21 AM

Man, you guys win for the longest friggin' posts EVER! Every post is an essay, for chrissakes! heh heh

Zone

=FM=1st Lt prey · 03-21-2003, 11:25 AM

lol Zoner

Yeah some really good points put in from all sides on this one, its never gonna be resolved overnight though, just hope it settles down before fucking EA decide to bring out a game on it! biggrin:

Then I will have to strap explosives to my bod and run into their PR office lol

LoneGunner87 · 03-21-2003, 11:28 AM

Ive never seen a post that big. Kids could turn that in as an Essay for school and the teachers wouldnt even know wat their talking about and still give thim an A.

Ydiss · 03-21-2003, 11:29 AM

[quote="=FM=1st Lt prey":8c224]lol Zoner

Yeah some really good points put in from all sides on this one, its never gonna be resolved overnight though, just hope it settles down before fucking EA decide to bring out a game on it! biggrin:

Then I will have to strap explosives to my bod and run into their PR office lol[/quote:8c224]

Just hope they don't do another Desert Strike style isometiric chopper game.

Saddam Strike.

Loved the game on my Amiga 500+ (2mb ram!) but it's shameless cashing in on war.

Hold on, I paid for MoH:AA... Oops.

LoneGunner87 · 03-21-2003, 11:30 AM

Im gonna die laughing if EA brings out a game on Desert storm.

Ydiss · 03-21-2003, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneGunner87

Ive never seen a post that big. Kids could turn that in as an Essay for school and the teachers wouldnt even know wat their talking about and still give thim an A.

None of the posts equal the length of some of the rants I've posted in the past.

I did A-level English Literature, so maybe that's why I try to be eloquent and clear in my monologues but then I only got an E so perhaps not

pest · 03-21-2003, 11:31 AM

[quote="=FM=1st Lt prey":c63e4]lol Zoner

Yeah some really good points put in from all sides on this one, its never gonna be resolved overnight though, just hope it settles down before fucking EA decide to bring out a game on it! biggrin:

Then I will have to strap explosives to my bod and run into their PR office lol[/quote:c63e4]