[Exorcist]

Alil, what is the Israeli elite military force’s name again? You know, it’s the group that goes in and kicks the s**t out whoever is targeted the government. I think it’s kind of a secret order, if I remember correctly. Couldn’t we ask those nice folks to go and find Osama Bin Laden for us? I bet they could find him, catch him and castrate him and send his balls back in a jar, and all in about a week!

Oh to dream . . .

Steve

[Stony]

I'm not sure as to how entirely accurate I am, but from the research I've done about the conflict there was never an independent Palestinian nation before the Brits reserved the land for the displaced Jews after WW2 (which later became Israel). As a matter of fact there wasn't ANY demarcated political boundaries in the Middle East at all until Britain drew them up after WW1 (except for maybe kingdoms from the past that still existed). There was just a big desert region full of warring tribes sitting on top of a big bunch of oil.

Shortly after WW2 Palestinians were told to leave their traditional homelands to make way for the Jews to settle there. Couple this with the traditional hostilities between the Arabs and the Jews, and you have a mess, the fire fueled by leaders of both sides who believe that they are both doing the right thing by escalating the violence and the attitude of intolerance.

To the Israeli Jews, returning to Palestine was a fulfillment of a prophecy where God would return them to their homeland. They believe Israel has a divine right to exist, and they protect it fiercely. To the Arabs however, they fear their own prophecy where the Jews would rebuild the Temple Mount and use it as a cornerstone to smash Islam, and therefore try to prevent it from happening.

Again, pardon me if this isn't entirely accurate, but I think the origin of the modern situation lies somewhere along those lines.




[This message has been edited by Stony (edited February 02, 2002).]

[Pugilist]

that enlightened me stony, like 4,000 yrs of history in a nutshell

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"Fur Ehrund Pflicht, bis herz und klinge bricht"

[Stony]

All in the name of God somehow. Religious interpretations distorted for the manipulation of the masses to do the bidding of a few powerful individuals. History is replete with such examples.

[Wrangler]

Stony is very close to 100% correct except for a few points...the "Palestinians" weren't forced off the land or out of thier homes by anyone. When the Israelis declared statehood in 1948, they told the "Palestinian" residents to stay in thier homes during the fighting and out of the way, and once the war was over, they could go on living peacefully together as they had been...as neighbors...the neighboring Arab nations how-ever, told them to leave and get out of the way, and once they drove the Jews into the sea, that they could come back and have everything. Well, history shows who won, so those who left hoping to destroy the Jews and come back and take what was theirs became displaced..."refugees"...thier own fault...out of pure greed and hatred...not the Israeli's fault at all...as well, historically, there is no, NOR WAS THERE EVER, a "Palestinian" people or country. There is no Palestinian language either....they were nomadic and squatted on the land during the centuries of Jewish exile...it was never their land to begin with...the League of Nations even stood behind and validated that histroy and charged the British with re-establishing the Jewish state, but when the time came, the brits pulled out leaving a vacuum, etc, etc etc. One thing the Brits did do, however, was take 2/3 of the land that the League of Nations specified was rightfully the Jewish homeland and created the country now known as Jordan...then called Trans-Jordan...as their way of thanking the Arabs...keeping Arab relationships intact, and screwed the Jews in the process.....

[Stony]

Thanx for the enlightenment Wrangler. I was kinda fuzzy about some thngs.

[coyote11]

First, I don't even think US should even support Israel, WTC would not get hit if it were the case, since most Middle Eastern nation hates US primarily because of US support.

[krazyklown]

Look between the lines of all the mess going on in the world: RELIGION!

Religion is the single most destructive force out there. No, Im not an atheist, but organized religions are just idiotic. The Bible, Koran, etc. are books of stories(myths), translated into laws for people who lived thousands of years ago. How can modern society base Religious thought to ancient times, where the people were so mis-educated, and beleived, literally, that thunder, lighting, any natural event, was caused by a God in the sky...LOL!
Wake up all!

[Oddball]

This is the most comprehensive answer that I have seen so far on the conflict and why Arabs don't like the US.
(This will be a long post btw and I didn't write this, a man I knew did)
Firstly, the Myth of the Crusaders.

ALL US PPL READ THIS, IT WILL EXPLAIN SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH TO U GUYS!!!!!!!!

As a child in Australia, my perceptions of the politics in the Middle East were common to most ther school boys at my age. I recalled childhood stories learned at school of how that most purist and chivalrous expedition, The Crusades, had set forth from Europe to free the Holy land from the Infidels. King Richard was the epitome of the perfect hero. He had been a Crusader, so Crusaders must be good.

Crusaders in the Arabs eyes are, in fact, not the purest of heroes but indeed the villains which had together the vices of Attila the Hun and Gengis Khan. Saladin, whom I had learned from childhood as the archetypal foe, is indeed the great hero of Arabia who liberated Arab world and Palestine from the Crusaders. Crusaders did in fact massacre the populations of captured towns so you see why it is so the Arabs have this correct perception of the Crusaders.

We see the Jews in Israel as merely reasserting an historic territorial right which they have held for more than 2,000 years. However the territorial right to some historians may be equivalent to for example that the Swedish may have possession of European Russia (indeed in the 17th Century during the rule of Gustavus II Adolphus, Sweden did hold much swy over much of European Russia). To the Arabs, the historic claim of the Jews to the possession of Israel is as relevant as the other European claim.

The Arabs see the Israelis as European colonists who have coe only since WWII to colonise land that the Palestinians have successivley held for the past 2,000 years. yet this occupation by this European colony which is against the moral order of man in the Arabs eyes. It is essential to understand that to the Arabs eyes the existence of Israel is not so much a military fact but primarily and centrally a moral wrong. Over them past 50 years it has been impossible to dislodge the state of Israel, to dislodge the existence of this "moral wrong". This has been because of the overwhelming support given to Israel by the United States of America.

TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT IS THROUGH THE EFFORTS OF THE UNITED STATES, THAT IN WHAT ARAB EYES IS THE MORAL WRONG OF THE EXISTENCE OF ISRAEL IS PERPETUATED, IS TO UNDERSTAND WHY THE UNITED STATES IS IN ARAB EYES "THE GREAT SATAN"- FOR WHO ELSE BUT SATAN WOULD MAKE SUCH TITANIC EFFORTS TO PERPETUATE SUCH A "MORAL WRONG"

This was not a US bashing, simply an explanation.

[lysis]

maybe there should be a MOH installment of this conflict? you play as underground militants, or Israeli soldiers. The Media attention this game would generate would cause tons of copies to be sold so there would be a profit involved. Of course a little controversy though hehe.

[Captain Bunny]

yeah just like MS flight sim, about how it supposidly trained terrorists.
One newspaper showed a screenie of a plane in the came going into thw WTC. and i quote, said "The game generates with frightening realism the plane shattering as it smashes into one of the twin towers".
the morons!. the game was glitching as it cant handle things crashing into things and doesnt display much damage.
sheesh. the media really do talk pish about so much. who knows what the would say about a war game of the isreali thing.
"the game shows in frightening realism of isreali men being shot to peices by machine gun fire".
no sh*t sherlock, so does every other war game.

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I can't help about the shape I'm in, I can't sing I ain't pretty and my legs are thin. But don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to.

[siRis702]

i think we should take back are shit that we gave israel and than let palastine and israel have war with each other....

[jas142]

Unfourtunatley, its not that easy. Palastine is the equivalent of a state within Israel. Declaring a war isn't really possible

I Israel should just allocate ALL their military to it for an intensive week or so and just mop it up once and for all.

[Herpes83]

Is anyone else fed up with these 2 factions? I know I am, and I know it's horrible, but I hope the conflict comes to a boiling point (aka WAR) soon, because they are never going to get along, so let's cut the sh*t and drop the gloves....After a war, there's usually a nice peaceful time...

[Captain Bunny]

to a certain extend you have a point like get it over with. but it could be a war that drags on and on, pretty much like what they are doing now, except havnt actually declared official war.
and then you get into the things where other countries stick their nose in to help, and so on, and before you know bush and blair are having political meetings with the leaders.
but after war, if its declared a draw, then they are no better of, if one country wins then the loser has to adopt the winners way of life. the whole thing is about stupid religion anyway.
and bush and blair arnt going to sit back and let this all happen, they would send troops over and our boys would end up killed in a clean up job or something by the inevtiable rebels. its too hard to say what would happen. i mean weve all seen what people who swear by their religion can do. those people cant be changed by a slap on the wrist.

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I can't help about the shape I'm in, I can't sing I ain't pretty and my legs are thin. But don't ask me what I think of you, I might not give the answer that you want me to.