um people DO play on Omaha servers with NO snipers and LOVE it.

They ARE getting real, that is the point.

You can kill MG42 gunners with an M-1 but it is harder to do.

You can get to the shingle without being mowed down, but it takes effort.

And it is fun too.

[Johner]

PLEASE FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO ALL WHO MAY CARE OR MAKE A DIFFERENCE

Ok lets be realistic here... OMAHA beach is the coolest looking map (at least in my opinion), but unfortunately it's one of the least fun due to a few small issues that go a long ways. First of all The sniper rifle should NOT be available by DEFAULT. Right now some servers use a "mod" to make it unavailable I suggest that it not be available and there should be a mod for the opposite reason.

Here's my logic for this...
ALL THE ALLIED TEAM DOES IS SNIPE!!! It doesn't even help them. They snipe then the axis immediately respawns CLOSER to the allied objective: therefore helping the axis by putting them where they should be (in order to win) bringing them to full health and ammo, AND worst of all simply wasting their own time. I think the reason people do this is because it "works" by that I mean gets individual kill scores which don't even matter since the map is an objective based team game.
One argument for an ally to snipe the whole time is that any axis defenders need to be taken out so allies can get in. Well that's ridiculous for a number of reasons. First if you are killed near the boat spawn GREAT! You get to spawn closer to the axis base behind a wall! From this point it is easy to get inside even if there are many defenders. Secondly nothing says you can't run up to the base (like allies are supposed to) and still shoot OR snipe just snipe the current defenders then move (rather than sitting there all day like the allies do).

This brings me to my next point. I think that for objective team maps, individual kills should not be recorded as they are irrelevant. Like previously stated, the allies in reality are only helping the axis by sitting there and sniping ESPECIALLY by getting a ton of kills in doing so. I think the "scores" should be based on what you do to help your team and not the other one. So for this map when you hit the tab key it should display points for every time you arm the bomb and more if it destroys the cannon. This way you get points for trying to win and more for winning! As for the axis, they should get points for disarming the bombs and killing allies. How many points each person has shouldn't matter (as the axis would be getting a lot more) because the point is to win the objective. Hopefully this should make people less conscience of their "scores" and more so on what they are doing to help the team.

This takes me to my next point which is the Allies should NOT be rewarded for the Axis killing them. What I mean by this is that if an Axis kills an Ally somewhere between their two spawn points, they really just help them by safely respawning them closer to their objective and nice 'n safe behind a wall. This makes no sense! The way things are going Axis should only kill allies once they are close to the objective, they shouldn't use the turrets (which sucks because of snipers anyway) or even look outside the base to get incoming allies.
The way to fix this is to simply have the Allies ALWAYS spawn at the boat points and give them temporary VISIBLE invulnerability (like in wolfenstein) OR just make it so they can't be hurt while in the boat (which they spawn in) and can't shoot while in it too. Either of these (I liked the second one) would give the allies time to take cover and not be "spawned killed".

And finally the axis should have 2 more turrets, 1 behind each of the sandbags. Why? Well first of all turrets aren't absolutely suck especially against snipers (who shouldn't be there to begin with). Even if sniper rifles were removed on the beach by default they still wouldn't be that great. I think the turrets should be there so they can BE USED!
This would be awesome. Finally you could have allies storming the beach with bullets flying all over the place. Some may say that this would make the axis too powerful. I completely disagree. For one thing if the other fixes are implemented the allies would stop wasting time and start trying to rush the cannons. AND more importantly the Allies SHOULD usually have more people since the Axis has the terrain advantage. Plus I think during the real beach invasion and logic would state that the allies had/would need more people to win considering the Axis map advantage. Instead of players whining about how the teams don't have equal numbers or how one team keeps winning they should take personal responsibility and try to balance the teams so no team is consistently winning. How many are on each team is irrelevant only who is currently winning/losing.

On a final note, I don't think games should sacrifice fun by realism and by the creator's own words and my opinion "this is not a realistic game". I think that my suggestions will help to change to map to the way it was designed to be played. Basically: Allies rush and try to destroy the cannons and Axis tries to prevent allies from moving forward STARTING from the beach.

PLEASE FORWARD THIS EMAIL TO ALL WHO MAY CARE OR MAKE A DIFFERENCE thanks

[Recycled Spooge]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Johner:
This brings me to my next point. I think that for objective team maps, individual kills should not be recorded as they are irrelevant. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yep, I have said exactly the same thing, or something very similar to this back in May or June or July, or should I just say, "Summer". :P That was back when I was still hyped up about this game. :P But yes, I agree with you.

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GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!!!

[This message has been edited by Recycled Spooge (edited February 05, 2002).]

[*GEL* DeathStrike gm]

I didnt read all u said, but i knew where u were going with the first lines or so. I agree.

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*GEL*DeathStrike[gm]
Gods Elite Legion
www.godselitelegion.s5.com

[all2neat]

take the omaha SP level, are there sniper's anywhere in the level??? i don't remeber (unless u cheat) there being sniper rifles for the allies or the axis.

[Apollo]

Agreed.

I can pick off the guys behind the MG42 witht he Thompson and BAR just as easy as the sniper rifle. Its not a problem. [OSM] would be really nice if a lot of servers used it. Anybody know where I can get it. Our clan, |e-co.|, is going to get a dedicated server tomorrow, and I'm trying to get together some links for the guy who's setting it up. I've already found [CPR], its gonna be v1.1, and I've got soddit's DSL. I'm looking for [OSM] though, because me and a few other clan members seem to like the idea of [OSM].

[jonesy-the-cat]

If BARs and M1s are just as easy as the Springfield, then you would have to disable them too, no?

No snipers makes Omaha more fun? To whom, the Axis?

Here is the way I usually see it happen: The Allies keep getting mowed down by the MG42s, eventually they get sick of it, so some switch to snipers and pick off the gunners, then the Germans start complaining about how snipers are 'gay' and ruin the game.

I almost never play sniper. Usually SMG or MG or M1, especially on realism. Sometimes I use others for fun or strategic reasons. In one recent Omaha game, I was using MG most of the time, even destroyed one of the guns. When the Germans started continually mowing us down with MG42s (their idea of a fun game) I switched to sniper and suppressed them. Then they said that I was 'gay' and I ruin the game.

Why is it that they consider the MG42s fair but not snipers? I asked a complainer this question and he said 'because they didn't have them in the REAL battle.' My response: 'Oh, but they DID have magic health packs?' He said snipers ruin the whole point of the game. My response: 'the purpose is to HAVE FUN!'

I don't understand why we can't just go into a game to have fun. It always has to turn into name calling and complaining. Well, I think I do know why. Because these are little immature kids. There is no way to fix that.

I do agree with many of Johner's points. However, as I see it, the problem is immature players who can't handle not having their way. They want to keep sticking their head out and not be shot. No exaggeration.

[Fetal IceCream]

an easier solution to the sniper problem would be to limit the amount of snipers.
on a 20 player server .. 2 per side.
32 player...4 per side.
removing the sniper rifle from that map is NOT realistic
no sniper rifle = sucking the sweat of a deadmans balls.

[jimboz]

agreed

[Johner]

"I don't agree with you. Granted, it would be nice to use the MG-42s once in a while, but if the Allies insist on sitting there sniping, all I do is run down to the beach, and kill each one of them in the boats."

You may think your helping but like some allied snipers think you're really helping the other team. The reason for this is because some allies will get past you and may reach the gun, especially those who spawn after the boats. Plus if you kill people at the boats all it does is either make THEM respawn where they were (with full health a choice of weapon and full ammo) OR closer to the guns. Either way your helping them and wasting your time by not defending the gun. One could say that you are temporarily getting rid of the snipers, but what's the point of that if they aren't threatening the cannons anyway that and all the previous stuff I said.

"They're so busy aiming, they never see us. Then of course you get people bitching about spawn camping, but where else are we to find enemies - they're all in the boats!."

Actually the enemies spawn equally as much behind the safety of the walls much closer to the bunkers.

"I know what you're saying - you want Omaha to be a truly team-based map. It will never happen on public servers. There's little you can do about it."

I think there's a lot you can do about it. Just read my suggestions Anyhow if the system changes it will always change how people play more or less. Right now it is all about "me" not "team or win" oriented.
I have seen servers with certain mods that do have a big effect on changing the way people play, such as the no sniper rifle mod.

[This message has been edited by Johner (edited February 05, 2002).]

[DaWeasel]

i agree

[Mpoulos01]

i agree too

[Sn!peR]

Absolutely. However, with the game still I would say in its early stages(i mean, the UK still doesn't have it, aye?), we still have to deal with it. It justs comes down to the fact that some players just don't get it.

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[Johner]

"If BARs and M1s are just as easy as the Springfield, then you would have to disable them too, no?"

To anyone who thinks BARs and M1s are just as easy to kill axis sentries with I completely disagree. They're less accurate, do less damage (most of the time) AND since they often don't kill in 1 shot due to the previous reasons it gives the turrets time to aim and shoot them. Just play a no sniper mod server and see for yourself.

"snipers makes Omaha more fun? To whom, the Axis? Here is the way I usually see it happen: The Allies keep getting mowed down by the MG42s, eventually they get sick of it, so some switch to snipers and pick off the gunners, then the Germans start complaining about how snipers are 'gay' and ruin the game."

I've played on both sides (usually trying to help whatever team is losing) with and without the no sniper mod. My experience with the no sniper mod is GREAT! Sometimes the turrets kill the allies and vice-versa. 1 think you should ALWAYS keep in mind is that ALL MAPS THAT ARE NOT EXACTLY THE SAME ON BOTH SIDES WILL BENEFIT 1 team MORE OR LESS. I think with or without my suggestions this map (along with most of them) are axis friendly, but that really doesn't matter because it is the players responcibility to balance accordingly. I try to balance by joining which team keeps losing NOT necesarily what team has less people or has less overall wins (stick to the here and now). One problem is that allies should NOT spawn anywhere other than the boats so they aren't rewarded for being killed by spawning closer to the axis base behind a nice 'n safe wall. Now before anyone starts screaming "SPAWN KILLERS" I have suggested that the allies get temporary VISIBLE invunerability (ala wolfenstein)to prevent this and I think it adds a touch of modified realism for the game itself (as if the boat doors were closed). Also the allies should not be able to shoot during this state to be fair to the axis, but they can get themselves in position and scan the area.

"I almost never play sniper. Usually SMG or MG or M1, especially on realism. Sometimes I use others for fun or strategic reasons. In one recent Omaha game, I was using MG most of the time, even destroyed one of the guns. When the Germans started continually mowing us down with MG42s (their idea of a fun game) I switched to sniper and suppressed them. Then they said that I was 'gay' and I ruin the game."

That's the problem the allies do NOT need suppression sniper fire for the turrets. 1 it puts the axis closer to your objective, 2 its VERY easy to get out of the turrets sights you can either run up the beach in a variety of ways (and maybe get killed, more on that later). OR you could use other guns to take out the current gunners (ya thats right the sniper rifle isn't the ONLY gun you can use) then move on. OR you could just let yourself get killed and be instantly spawned nice and close to the bunker behind a thick wall.

"Why is it that they consider the MG42s fair but not snipers? I asked a complainer this question and he said 'because they didn't have them in the REAL battle.' My response: 'Oh, but they DID have magic health packs?' He said snipers ruin the whole point of the game. My response: 'the purpose is to HAVE FUN!'"

The answer is simple to this. MG42s arent as good as sniper rifles AND there is actually a point to camp killing the allies if you are an axis which is to keep them away from the base which leads to the cannons (objectives). Plus I don't think allied camp sniping is "cheap" or unfair I just think that it's pointless.

I think there should be a reson to use the turrets other than being a booby trap for the axis. This has been consistently demonstrated on non sniper servers. The turrets actually have an effective use and I don't find them unfair (yes that is WITHOUT sniper rifles).

[Johner]

I like it when people agree with me I think all my suggestions would just make the game more fun.