nice to know I am not the oldest on here anymore

[Mosquito]

For anybody who makes mods, hearing what people dislike about a game is invaluable. It helps to set up level design to not make the same mistakes that the game's designers made when building maps.
The "bitching" also helps developers to target where they went wrong, although a word or two about how great the game is can go a long way towards a thread being read. I know that in Software Quality Control, where I work, we are always interested in finding out what our clients think about our product, the good is nice, but the bad helps us to pinpoint where to make changes to our product. Feedback is critical in a cutthroat buisiness like this, and failure to take constructive criticism is deadly. To take that criticism though, it has to first be put forth and a forum like this is a good way to do that.

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August 19, 1942

[TargetDrone]

I personally love the game. Im a real crappy player but I dont complain. I play the CPR (realism) servers and usually get my ass kicked by the better players but Im learning. No way am I playing the nade spamming servers. The only thing Id like to see more of in Multiplayer is rifles. Would be cool if there was a squad based option. Maybe in an expansion pack if there is one.

[First Man Down v2.0]

Pugilist,

You're over-simplifying my words and not really getting my point. Obviously there's going to be aspects people don't like - as I said, it isn't perfect. I don't have a problem with people critizing the game; I agree with you guys, bringing up what you dislike helps the developer. However, I do get tired of having people constantly bitch and whine about snipers, or rockets, or whatever on a server. If you don't like it - find a different server. It's bothersome to be playing a game and having an individual bitch and moan about snipers, yet continue to play on the bloody server.

Apparently these complaints are fostered through frustration. Any decent player can overcome the threats posed by those types of weapons. With that said, I do understand that it's irritating playing as an Axis sniper in a bunker, only to get blown up over and over again by rockets. But people who bitch about this are doing so because it apparently infringes on their right to have an unimpeded and unchallenged nest from which to kill the enemy.

Anyone else see the problem?

If you keep getting killed employing one tactic - adapt, change weapons, learn, get better. Most players frown upon the use of "newbie" weapons like shotguns and rockets, so most stick with rifles and MGs. There should rarely be a situation where a side is completely overcome with "newbie" weapons. But then again these weapons offer easy kills and such is the nature of online play. Yes, there is objective-based maps, but we've all witnessed the near impossibility in getting people to co-operate on a public server.

You're essentially right when you say it's personal choice. And there are many different mods played on many different servers to reflect that. So don't enter a server with no mods and bitch about too many snipers for an hour. Personally, I like the variety of weapons - it makes it interesting, and it forces me to learn and employ different tactics to overcome the varying threats.

[Johner]

If you don't like what you call "bitching" just ignore it. Besides there are reasons why people "bitch" more on some games than others it's not just random. For example certain games have more problems than others. Just because of a few complaints doesn't mean people should stop playing the game altogether. Besides most of the "bitching" is really just constructive critisims in hopes of making a better game in whoever's opinion. Also most of the advice I see could be easily implemented but still go a long ways. This is not to say that each critism is right but it really doesn't matter because, in any case, the only people who decide to listen to or implement ideas are the developers.

[Ladmo]

I think it's nice to hear constructive critisism and things that people would like to see or wish were different, but when people post stuff like..."this game blows, don't buy it, buy Wolfenstien" that gets a little annoying. Maybe it's just me, but there have been many games that I sure didn't like and I didn't go looking for message boards to post on. I just didn't play the game and found something else to do. But, to each his own.

[Johner]

I agree! I think 1 difference between bitching and constructive critism is bitching doesn't really tell you anything or propose any realistic changes. For example if the essence of your message is simply, "stop bitching im tired of it" That doesn't explain much and I doubt it will change much as well.

[This message has been edited by Johner (edited February 05, 2002).]

[First Man Down v2.0]

I think I type in Chinese because whenever I post something, it's point is lost on nearly everyone. Please re-read my reply and then rebutt, if you like.

And "bitching" occurs when someone "bitches" about snipers because they keep getting killed by snipers. If you hang around in one spot in the open too long, you deserve to get sniped.

To have someone spend an hour whining and complaining, but not offering a reason why is not constructive, is it?

Many intelligent individuals have expressed their dislike of certain elements. Some, even, have addressed the issue of too many snipers on the Omaha map. The difference being, they do so in a manner that begs listening and proper response. My point, lost on some of you, is that we haven't been getting reasons behind many individual's complaints. How, I ask, would a game developer gain insight from a comment like this:

"And I often play on the Allied side on Omaha! I am so sick and tired of the sniper fest that is Omaha. I knew wwwaaaayyyyy before the game was released that Omaha was going to turn into a sniper war.
Just look at DoD_Omaha if you want proof. I want MG42s spraying bullets at my feet, not some pussy sniper putting a bullet in my head.
Anyway are there any Omaha servers that run that no-sniper mod besides the sweedish one?"

How is that constructive?

In the last two days there are AT LEAST ten threads related to snipers and how "they suck." Only one of them offers suggestions.

On a lighter note, I always get a laugh when someone claims Allied snipers on Omaha beach aren't historically accurate! Well, at least we'll give them credit for coming up with a reason.

[Johner]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by First Man Down v2.0:
I think I type in Chinese because whenever I post something, it's point is lost on nearly everyone. Please re-read my reply and then rebutt, if you like.

And "bitching" occurs when someone "bitches" about snipers because they keep getting killed by snipers. If you hang around in one spot in the open too long, you deserve to get sniped.

To have someone spend an hour whining and complaining, but not offering a reason why is not constructive, is it?

Many intelligent individuals have expressed their dislike of certain elements. Some, even, have addressed the issue of too many snipers on the Omaha map. The difference being, they do so in a manner that begs listening and proper response. My point, lost on some of you, is that we haven't been getting reasons behind many individual's complaints. How, I ask, would a game developer gain insight from a comment like this:

"And I often play on the Allied side on Omaha! I am so sick and tired of the sniper fest that is Omaha. I knew wwwaaaayyyyy before the game was released that Omaha was going to turn into a sniper war.
Just look at DoD_Omaha if you want proof. I want MG42s spraying bullets at my feet, not some pussy sniper putting a bullet in my head.
Anyway are there any Omaha servers that run that no-sniper mod besides the sweedish one?"

How is that constructive?

In the last two days there are AT LEAST ten threads related to snipers and how "they suck." Only one of them offers suggestions.

On a lighter note, I always get a laugh when someone claims Allied snipers on Omaha beach aren't historically accurate! Well, at least we'll give them credit for coming up with a reason.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well I agree that the quote you gave isn't constructive and I think it's mostly just whining. As for the 1 post that gave suggestions, I hope your talking about mine Read it, it's a few posts down please reply too. I don't want to rewrite everything I wrote before, but I will say the intent of my suggestions was aimed at fun and balance not realism. 2015 admitted that MOHAA is not a realistic game, PLUS if you play the single player map there isn't a one sniper rifle (oh ya there is 1 but after that you get very close to the bunkers but there aren't any in the context of where people complain about them, unless you cheat) Although single player is of course different than MP that map has the same principles. Also don't just look at the main topics many of the replies offer their own suggestions.

[Exorcist]

First Man Down,

I know where you're coming from my friend. Don't get discouraged, keep posting your ideas,it counts!

Steve . . .

[First Man Down v2.0]

Am I the only one sick and tired of all the bitching surrounding this game? I've never heard anything like it! I think this is one of the top five FPS of all-time, yet people still want more. It's not perfect, kids, but it is wicked. Have you ever heard the expression, you can't always get what you want? If you don't like one aspect of the game, stop playing that. This game was designed so it would appeal universally, it wasn't designed for your specific tastes.

Shut up, play the game, and be happy. Please stop whining about snipers, you sound like old women.

[First Man Down v2.0]

Johner,

I did reply to that thread of yours and I didn't agree Mind you, yours was the one I was referring to when I suggested only one gave an explanation. But honestly, I'm not bothered by snipers, rockets, etc. because they don't effect my fun factor. If someone were to mod the number of those types of weapons, it still wouldn't effect my fun.

However, I appreciate your intelligent and thought-out input, but I don't want to turn this argument into simply an issue of snipers vs. no snipers/less snipers. I should have been more explict in my original post. Basically, I'm tired of individuals posting about elements they don't like, but not offering an explanation. It is apparent that these players are frustrated with being killed, but don't adjust their strategies. And I echo the thought that Die Fledermause insightfully made with regards to young players. I'm only a paultry 23, and I'm not trying to be condescending when I defend that stance, but more often than not, we get turse criticisms with no more of an explanation of "this sucks."

I play the game daily and I do my best to ignore comments made by people while online, but to come on to this board and find thread after thread being negative in nature, but offering nothing constructively substantial, it gets a little tiring. And boring, to say the least.

This game is in its infancy. It promises to be a very popular game and a very popular game to mod - like Half-Life. We are seeing a great community of players and supporters develop and nothing is more counterproductive than to say something "sucks" and not expand on those profound words.

Guys, if something bothers you, if you think something can be or should be fixed, I highly suggest you post here, but do so in a manner that will get your suggestions heard. Then, and only then, will people respond.

And always remember what mum said, "Ask nicely, and say please."

[Pugilist]

First Man you should think before you make an ass out of yourself. In case you haven't noticed EVERY FPS that has come out has people that make mods for it. either to add new things of tweak existing ones so people can play the type of game they want.
I hate 99% snipers on every map, maybe you love it....either way it is PERSONAL preference. If someone wants to come on here and post about what they like and dislike and make suggestions for mods GOOD..it will only add to the game.
If you don't like what people post then don't F'in read it. You are the one who sounds like an old woman.

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"Fur Ehrund Pflicht, bis herz und klinge bricht"

also, people would not be here at all if they did not like the game and care about the game a great deal.

but it is true that when people are offering criticism they often forget to point out what they like.

posting how much you like things does not improve anything though.

finally, the majority of users are 15 to 21 years old. as such they are most likely to be very opinionated and express themselves in very black and white, hate it or love it terms.

so yes that can come off as bitching.

I personally feel sorry for anyone who tries to make a mode or patch cause all you will here is how much it sucks - from people who could not even come close to making anything as good as you did, lol. I think most people are use to that though.


[This message has been edited by Die Fledermause (edited February 05, 2002).]

[Ebok]

Just thought I might add some insight to this. First I'am a newbe to this forum, second, I'am almost 50 yrs. old and think this game rocks. So much for the "younger generation". Hell I was born only 6 yrs. after WWII was done. Only have played flight sims up till now, but just love this game, most addictive. I like it because you have to use your brain and figure things out. My thoughts. Thanks.