About Snipers on Omaha....

RSM Harper · 02-05-2002, 08:36 AM

To all the people who think snipers should not be allowed on Omaha, I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you.
Before I get started, I just want to say I don't mean to offend anyone. These are purely my opinions, and I feel a good balance of NON-CAMPING work very nicely on both sides. Anyway..to the point.
Though I do believe the map is much funner w/out the sniper rifle and more enjoyable rushing through the bunkers with your team, I don't think (just my opinion based on experiance) that snipers in omaha is that big of a problem. If there are a few allied snipers who really enjoy sitting on the beach and sniping, then I say leave them alone and let them sit there. Theres only a few areas they can see from the beach. There objective isn't to kill, it's to get up that beach. If they like to site and watch, let them. If they want to sit there, then as the germans you can decide to sit behind the MG42 at the entrance of the bunker and wait for the rest of the team to come in. Clog up those two doors until you piss the team off, and don't move until those snipers at least decide to come of the beach. Or, beat them at there own game. Buy a sniper rifle, crouch up to the lip of the hill, where they can barely see you, and snipe there ass. Or,(my personal favorite), if they're really persistant, run down onto that beach, straight at them zig-zagging crazzily, and shoot them right in the head while there busy with that bolt-action (generally I don't run onto the beach as the Germans, but hey if some Allied sniper want to camp, why not, right?)
And if theres a bunch of germans sniping in those bunkers, well, thats even easier to take care of. Again, pull out that zig-zagging action across the beach (just don't go in a pattern and the won't touch you, and for those of you who say zig-zaggin won't work, practice makes perfect!) run up that bunker, close the distance and they're helpless.
Of you can take the easy way out and dl the mod....but I think it's much funner kicken there ass!

Once again, just my oponion. Please don't reply if you just going to be pissed, there are some people out there that are like that (though I know not most of you). Of course, I'm open-minded to anyone elses opinion.

RSM Harper · 02-05-2002, 08:53 AM

I know people will have something to say about this...I'll just bump before I call it quits for the night. Happy playing!

RSM Harper · 02-06-2002, 02:01 AM

Wow I though people would have tons to say about this. I guess thiw will be my last bump.

Dodd · 02-06-2002, 02:06 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RSM Harper:
Wow I though people would have tons to say about this. I guess thiw will be my last bump.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The debate about the snipers on Omaha, has been discussed heavily ever since the game got released.

BlackRanger3D · 02-06-2002, 02:11 AM

I have some to say. Damn you straight to ...

Well actually no. I agree with you. But not just about Omaha, but about snipers in general.

I will admitt that on more then one occasion I have been very pissed off by snipers (and campers, and zookas, and that damn MG44).

But IMHO, people should look at it as a challenge and therefore change their tactics, and teamwork to overcome.

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You feel a thousand deaths by fearing just one. - Klingon Captian of the SuQ'jagh-class Battle ship

poseyj · 02-06-2002, 02:15 AM

we know how to counter act snipers, that isn't the problem. we aren't proposing these changes because we are unable to get passed them.

as you said yourself, its a funner game, when the allies have to storm the beach with mg42's blazing.

people say 'let them snipe'. what better way to promote stupidity, then to let them have access to non-beneficial gameplay! Sure, for axis you can say, bah let them snipe, they won't get objective. but for allies, its not like that, if 2 people are sniping on the beach, thats 2 less people we have fighting the nazis as a team, its hard enough when its even, because of axis' instaneous spawn.

and trust me, if you've played against some GOOD axis players that take advantage of choke points, you NEED your team to work together. if there weren't any sniper rifles, the allies would have to all work together. perish the thought!

just do the math guys, it needs to be balanced. yes you can try and counter act, but when you find a good axis team that works together with everyone they have, and u got allies back at the beach gettin a tan, you will lose no matter how much of a rambo you are, cause this is a team game.

Shoegaze99 · 02-06-2002, 02:26 AM

poseyj, you, like many others, are targetting snipers while failing to address the actual problem which lies at the root of the complaints. The problem? Players who have no grasp on the idea of teamwork. Sniper rifles on Omaha Beach are not the problem, and bitching about them detracts from what *should* be stressed to lurkers who read these boards ... teamwork counts, non-team players are undesired.

Instead of stressing your disdain for the snipers (and I address this to all, not just to you), why not stress your disdain for those who fail to act as a team? That will be much more productive in the long run.

Sh3ll_Sh0ck · 02-06-2002, 02:45 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Tahoma, Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shoegaze99:
poseyj, you, like many others, are targetting snipers while failing to address the actual problem which lies at the root of the complaints. The problem? Players who have no grasp on the idea of teamwork. Sniper rifles on Omaha Beach are not the problem, and bitching about them detracts from what *should* be stressed to lurkers who read these boards ... teamwork counts, non-team players are undesired.

Instead of stressing your disdain for the snipers (and I address this to all, not just to you), why not stress your disdain for those who fail to act as a team? That will be much more productive in the long run.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well before I say anything that since my now notorius *snipers* post I have changed my ways. I love snipers now

But I don't love snipers on Omaha. And they ARE the problem! How is the map suppose to be fun if both teams just sit there and snipe? I play allied and I WANT to be cowering from MG42 fire. Not constantly getting a sniper's bullet in my head.
Same thing for Axis. I want to use the MG42 to lay down suppressive fire. I love it when an ally who escapes my notice tosses a well-placed grenade into the bunker, resulting in my death witch I find very enjoyable.

I don't like how the second I pop my head out of the bunker some sniper sitting in the Higgins boat puts a bullet in my brain. I am then forced to spend the rest of the map guarding the lower bunkers...Yawn.

Shoegaze99 · 02-06-2002, 03:00 AM

But Sh3ll_Sh0ck, you're talking about poor team play. If, as you describe, both teams "just sit there and sniper," there is a problem with the *teams* and the *players* for allowing such nonsense to continue. The moment I see that going on, I point it out to my team and say we have to diversify our squad.

Is the sniper rifle the most appropriate weapon for Omaha? I don't think so. There are many boards where it is a much more appropriate weapon. With the wide-open space at the beach, however, many players are tempted to use it. There are nonetheless some legitimate uses for it for both sides, though I'd discourage any Omaha team from having more than one sniper. One is enough.

But again, and I stress this, a situation like you describe is a player/team problem, not a weapon problem. If the team is just sitting around sniping, it points to a problem with the members of the team, not the weapon. If everyone is choosing the same weapon without looking at one another and saying "hey, maybe this isn't what's best for the team," the problem does not lie in the rifles in their hand.

As I have pointed out elsewhere, a good set of server admin tools will go a long way towards creating the kind of atmosphere many of the players here (jncluding myself) desire. You can talk to public server players until they are blue in the face, but most are weaned on Quake-like games. *Force* them to conform to teamplay on the server side and you'll see things change.

Sh3ll_Sh0ck · 02-06-2002, 03:07 AM

What about limmiting the snipers to two to a team? Like what many DoD server admins do.
That way there are still the skillfull snipers helping to give the allies cover fire as they advance up the beach.
But not so many that it ruins the experience.

Shoegaze99 · 02-06-2002, 03:37 AM

Shell, agreed, agreed, agreed. That's the type of ability I'd love to see admins have. No team ever needs more than two snipers - on *any* board.

jonesy-the-cat2 · 02-06-2002, 04:43 AM

Shell and Shoe both have some good points. Especially ShoeGaze about it being the peoples' mentality not the weapon at fault.

Personally, I have fun no matter what anyone else is using. Although I think it can be very dang annoying never to get off the beach due to German snipers. I will switch weapons to compensate. For example, if I keep getting sniped on the beach, I will switch to sniper and take the German sniper out. That can be satisfying in itself.

What bothers me more than snipers, or anything else about the game, is the annoying players who have to turn it into a fight with non-stop complaining and name-calling. That's the one thing that makes the game lose its fun.

It would be good to have a mod that allows the admin to determine the maximum number of each weapon, possibly as a ratio to each other. For example: 1 sniper, 1 zook, 1 shotty, 2 MG, 4 SMG, 4 M1. Would allow only 1 sniper up to 13 players. With more players, there could be 2 snipers.

But the BEST thing would be a way to shut up the annoying complainers/fight starters.

jonesy-the-cat2 · 02-06-2002, 04:45 AM

By the way, you don't really think that limiting the number of snipers will create teamwork, do you?

Many players don't play as a team or even intelligently with ANY weapon.

jujumantb · 02-06-2002, 05:03 AM

u dont have much of a chance to see good teamplay unless u join a clan...but there are those rare moments when it actually does happen

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Next to God...
...A Grunts Best Friend

Shoegaze99 · 02-06-2002, 05:46 AM

Well, jujumantb, some of us just feel too old for the whole clan scene and think it too often degenerates into cliquish, silly nonsense ... but you have a point.

In my experience the best way to get teamwork from your fellow players is to *encourage* teamwork. Chat with them, swap ideas, keep everybody involved. If nobody is taking charge, bark orders (suggestions!) if you have to. Point out the enemy's position, call for a charge, whatever.

It doesn't always work, but if you're not stuck on a server where the players are mostly very young kids it can work. (I find younger players are less apt to want t work together and more apt to be in it for the trash-talking)