[*MoG*Quartus]

[quote="Pfc.Green":61645]I'm not gonna read the bible :roll: , If I want good fiction I'll turn to the classic works of Tolkien Thankyou very much. I mean the storys he wrote were just as outlandish and fantastic why is'nt what he wrote true???[/quote:61645]

Tolkien did , in fact, write fiction hence not true. :lol:

How can you argue about something you haven't even examined. The Bible is about real people just like you, who lived and died just as you will.

Why do you think its fiction? Any basis, experience ?

[*MoG*Quartus]

[quote="Pfc.Green":15364]I'm not gonna read the bible :roll: , If I want good fiction I'll turn to the classic works of Tolkien Thankyou very much. I mean the storys he wrote were just as outlandish and fantastic why is'nt what he wrote true???[/quote:15364]

Tolkien did , in fact, write fiction hence not true. :lol:

How can you argue about something you haven't even examined. The Bible is about real people just like you, who lived and died just as you will.

Why do you think its fiction? Any basis, experience ?

[*MoG*Quartus]

[quote="Pfc.Green":c6145]I'm not gonna read the bible :roll: , If I want good fiction I'll turn to the classic works of Tolkien Thankyou very much. I mean the storys he wrote were just as outlandish and fantastic why is'nt what he wrote true???[/quote:c6145]

Tolkien did , in fact, write fiction hence not true. :lol:

How can you argue about something you haven't even examined. The Bible is about real people just like you, who lived and died just as you will.

Why do you think its fiction? Any basis, experience ?

[SW-14]

Yeah. What he said.

[SoLiDUS]

[quote="Old Reliable":a62f1]I suggest you listen to Low Spark, he is the most enlightened one on the forums [/quote:a62f1]

*cough* look at my previous posts *cough*

:lol:

[Sotilas Jane]

How can people take pieces of text and quote the bible literially? The bible has been translated so many times, that there must be some translation errors in it, minor or not. It is not the original scripture written word-by-word. And as you say, its most of the time meant to take literially.

I've read both Finnish and English version from the book of revelation, and although concept is same, there are some words, that are not exact.

Or then again, maybe I am just illiterate.

[*MoG*Quartus]

[quote="Sotilas Jane":be880]How can people take pieces of text and quote the bible literially? The bible has been translated so many times, that there must be some translation errors in it, minor or not. It is not the original scripture written word-by-word. And as you say, its most of the time meant to take literially.

I've read both Finnish and English version from the book of revelation, and although concept is same, there are some words, that are not exact.

Or then again, maybe I am just illiterate.[/quote:be880]


Yes, any translated work. by its nature, will have some differences in the wording. The Bible was translated from Hebrew, Aramaic & Greek. In particular the New Testament is of concern here. The ancient greek langauge was word/ picture based, hence a word in greek might mean a sentence in english.
The only way to fully grasp what a writer was saying is of course to read it in its original language, a feat few people would want to attempt, so we have to rely on men to translate. However if I told you in english to Love your enemies, you could convey that meaning to someone in Finnish. Yes the words are different but the meanings are the same. :wink:

PS sorry for the mutiple posts earlier, i'm not sure what happened

[Sotilas Jane]

[quote="*MoG*Quartus":25592][quote="Sotilas Jane":25592]How can people take pieces of text and quote the bible literially? The bible has been translated so many times, that there must be some translation errors in it, minor or not. It is not the original scripture written word-by-word. And as you say, its most of the time meant to take literially.

I've read both Finnish and English version from the book of revelation, and although concept is same, there are some words, that are not exact.

Or then again, maybe I am just illiterate.[/quote:25592]


Yes, any translated work. by its nature, will have some differences in the wording. The Bible was translated from Hebrew, Aramaic & Greek. In particular the New Testament is of concern here. The ancient greek langauge was word/ picture based, hence a word in greek might mean a sentence in english.
The only way to fully grasp what a writer was saying is of course to read it in its original language, a feat few people would want to attempt, so we have to rely on men to translate. However if I told you in english to Love your enemies, you could convey that meaning to someone in Finnish. Yes the words are different but the meanings are the same. :wink:[/quote:25592]

But how can we be sure, that there are not parts in the bible, which have totally different meaning too, by a mistake in wording? I think that the original scriptures are long lost(?) and this we never can know how it really was meant to be. One wrong word in one wrong sentence could lead for total misconception, and make people understand the whole "event" in totally different view, thus maybe even leading to new actions - in a wrong way? Maybe that is an exaggeration, but still, makes you wonder.

[*MoG*Quartus]

[quote="Sotilas Jane":f9ab4]
But how can we be sure, that there are not parts in the bible, which have totally different meaning too, by a mistake in wording? I think that the original scriptures are long lost(?) and this we never can know how it really was meant to be. One wrong word in one wrong sentence could lead for total misconception, and make people understand the whole "event" in totally different view, thus maybe even leading to new actions - in a wrong way? Maybe that is an exaggeration, but still, makes you wonder.[/quote:f9ab4]

God makes sure His word is perserved. The books of Moses were written 500 years before the earliest Hindu Scriptures. Moses wrote Genesis 2,000 years before Muhammad penned the Koran. During that long history, no other book has been as loved or as hated as the Bible. No other book has been so consistently bought, studied, and quoted as this book. While millions of other titles come and go, the Bible is still the book by which all other books are measured. While often ignored by those who are uncomfortable with its teachings, it is still the central book of Western civilization.

[*MoG*Quartus]

Just as the modern state of Israel (~1948) was emerging from thousands of years of dispersion, a bedouin shepherd discovered one of the most important archeological treasures of our time. In a cave of the northwest rim of the Dead Sea, a broken jar yielded documents that had been hidden for two millennia. Additional finds produced manuscripts that predated previous oldest copies by 1,000 years. One of the most important was a copy of Isaiah. It revealed a document that is essentially the same as the book of Isaiah that appears in our own Bibles. The Dead Sea scrolls emerged from the dust like a symbolic handshake to a nation coming home. They discredited the claims of those who believed that the original Bible had been lost to time and tampering.

:wink:

[Sotilas Jane]

[quote="*MoG*Quartus":205ec][quote="Sotilas Jane":205ec]
But how can we be sure, that there are not parts in the bible, which have totally different meaning too, by a mistake in wording? I think that the original scriptures are long lost(?) and this we never can know how it really was meant to be. One wrong word in one wrong sentence could lead for total misconception, and make people understand the whole "event" in totally different view, thus maybe even leading to new actions - in a wrong way? Maybe that is an exaggeration, but still, makes you wonder.[/quote:205ec]

God makes sure His word is perserved. The books of Moses were written 500 years before the earliest Hindu Scriptures. Moses wrote Genesis 2,000 years before Muhammad penned the Koran. During that long history, no other book has been as loved or as hated as the Bible. No other book has been so consistently bought, studied, and quoted as this book. While millions of other titles come and go, the Bible is still the book by which all other books are measured. While often ignored by those who are uncomfortable with its teachings, it is still the central book of Western civilization.[/quote:205ec]

Still, in the earliest days you did not have thousands of active researches, thousands to study the word and help in the translation. So basicly we're living "under" one man's translation, although educated man, but still a man. Or does this again fall to the scenario "God makes sure His word is preserved" ?

Anyway or another from thing to another.

What is the mystery behind number 144,000 that seems to be awefully small number, while thinking the population.

And what is with the "Book of life" which contains the name of every soul that is going to be saved.

Is the Book of life constantly evolving, or are most of us born condamned?

How can one that loves us so much that is even inhuman to understand, send most of us in eternal pain and suffering, with no possibility to ever be freed from the flames?

Quite nice trick to create us, give us our own free will and thinking brains, then tell us lore of the bible. If we decide to belive it we survive (How can this be, I am sure there are more than 144,000 belivers) and if we do not belive, then its one ticket down to the eternal sauna.

[*MoG*Quartus]

[quote:e39cf]What is the mystery behind number 144,000 that seems to be awefully small number, while thinking the population.[/quote:e39cf]

That is the # of messanic jews that will bring millions to Christ in the last days (the great tribulation).

[quote:e39cf]And what is with the "Book of life" which contains the name of every soul that is going to be saved.[/quote:e39cf]

The book of Life does contain the names of those who are saved and yes it is contantly being added too (never deleted from).

[quote:e39cf] are most of us born condamned? [/quote:e39cf]

No one is born condemned, all are given a opportunity to accept God's gift of eternal life. Yours could be right now, if you pass it by thats your choice.

[quote:e39cf]Quite nice trick to create us, give us our own free will and thinking brains, then tell us lore of the bible. If we decide to belive it we survive (How can this be, I am sure there are more than 144,000 belivers) and if we do not belive, then its one ticket down to the eternal sauna[/quote:e39cf]

I don't understand it all nor claim to, I accept by faith that God is in control.

[Sotilas Jane]

[quote:22b2d]The book of Life does contain the names of those who are saved and yes it is contantly being added too (never deleted from). [/quote:22b2d]

So does this mean, that you could basicly go and live the way of Jesus, and get added into the book. Afterwards go insane, free and wild, beyond good and evil, and in holocaust of ecstacy and freedom, kill, enjoy and revel? And when you die, get to sit by the god in the heaven?

[quote:22b2d]No one is born condemned, all are given a opportunity to accept God's gift of eternal life. Yours could be right now, if you pass it by thats your choice.
[/quote:22b2d]

What about the people who do not ever even hear from the word? People who die without even knowing there is Jesus Christ? Are those people accepted to heaven from the pure measurement if they have lived a good life? If so, why not all of us are measured that way, but by do we belive, or not?


I still just do not get it. If we fail somehow to get in the heaven because way we have lived our very VERY short life span, then how can the ultimate love turn into the ultimate hatred by sending us to hell, where were sure to suffer much longer than our sins in this world would require. The ultimate punish?

Hell, even here at the world the guy who commints an murder has change to walk freely once again in the world after serving the time of the punish. In contract our nice god, more loving than anyone, more forgiving than anyone sends a good, family loving chap who has enjoyed a good life to hell, for eternal, inhuman punishment - just beause he did not choose to belive.

How can you call that justice, or ultimate love - by any measurement?

[BallisticWookie]

I believe in God, I am Lutheran, but I dont go to church anymore. I was once a strong believer, and I think I still am, but past events and continuing tragedy's always bring me to the same question. Why does God let this happen ?? If he loved us so much, why does he let us destroy ourselves ? I dont get it, why doesnt he destroy evil so we can live in peace ?? Is he waiting for us to destroy ourselves and then show his face ? He is truly magnificent and powerful, but his common sense is perhaps a bit of target.

Death and destruction in his or any religious entities name is, simply said, fucked. No one person has the right to take the life of another in the name of their god, only their god can take that life or give that life, but when it all boils down to it, their is, as far as I am concerned, only one God. So, we are all killing in His name for nothing. For all we know He could be up there laughing His ass off at us because of our complete and utter stupidity, and it would'nt suprise me one little bit if that is the case.

The death of a child at the hands of some murdering bastards hands is not God's will, it is evil's will. If God does love us unconditionally as written in the Bible, he would never let a child, one who has not even come close to experiencing the beauties and cruelties of this weird planet, to be killed cold heartedly. I cannot, for a second believe that God would, by his own hand, murder a child, and sadly, if that is the case, I cannot and will not, if it can become a known fact, put my faith in someone or something that can be as heartless or callous as that.

Until such a time comes, I will continue to believe that God and his Son, love us and watch over us, atleast those that believe in him. I am forever using his name in vain, blaming him for the worlds problems and other such things, but I will always love him. Others ofcourse will think differently, and I respect the fact that you may not believe in him or have different feelings and ideas toward him and about him. To each his own. You all have the right to choose to believe in what you want and no-one has the right to tell you what you can and cannot believe in. But respect is the key here, no matter what a persons feelings, respect must always be present and felt by both parties, believers and non-believers.

[Sotilas Jane]

Originally Posted by BallisticWookie

I believe in God, I am Lutheran, but I dont go to church anymore. I was once a strong believer, and I think I still am, but past events and continuing tragedy's always bring me to the same question. Why does God let this happen ?? If he loved us so much, why does he let us destroy ourselves ? I dont get it, why doesnt he destroy evil so we can live in peace ?? Is he waiting for us to destroy ourselves and then show his face ? He is truly magnificent and powerful, but his common sense is perhaps a bit of target.

Death and destruction in his or any religious entities name is, simply said, fucked. No one person has the right to take the life of another in the name of their god, only their god can take that life or give that life, but when it all boils down to it, their is, as far as I am concerned, only one God. So, we are all killing in His name for nothing. For all we know He could be up there laughing His ass off at us because of our complete and utter stupidity, and it would'nt suprise me one little bit if that is the case.

The death of a child at the hands of some murdering bastards hands is not God's will, it is evil's will. If God does love us unconditionally as written in the Bible, he would never let a child, one who has not even come close to experiencing the beauties and cruelties of this weird planet, to be killed cold heartedly. I cannot, for a second believe that God would, by his own hand, murder a child, and sadly, if that is the case, I cannot and will not, if it can become a known fact, put my faith in someone or something that can be as heartless or callous as that.

Until such a time comes, I will continue to believe that God and his Son, love us and watch over us, atleast those that believe in him. I am forever using his name in vain, blaming him for the worlds problems and other such things, but I will always love him. Others ofcourse will think differently, and I respect the fact that you may not believe in him or have different feelings and ideas toward him and about him. To each his own. You all have the right to choose to believe in what you want and no-one has the right to tell you what you can and cannot believe in. But respect is the key here, no matter what a persons feelings, respect must always be present and felt by both parties, believers and non-believers.

I think this all relates to the assumption, that He has made us thinking beings. We have the choice to follow His way, if we choose so, and we may live our own evil way, and to this He wont interfere, merely passes the judgement in the end; and mighty cruel that judgement is, eternity is bit of an overkill, even for the worst crimes possible.