[Sgt>Stackem]

Originally Posted by elstatec

im not saying US didnt pollute before bush, im saying that the action to protecting the earth is now, with the kyoto Protocol now and bush not signing up to it.




And you shouldnt be so ignorant about this, what good is '% of the worlds goods' when there is no world left to live in?

The Koyoto Protocol shoudnt have been signed. It was not realistic for a developed nation.


the % of goods produced has everything to do with the amount of polution created. you cant compare Africa with the US (or even Canada) in terms of polution produced. Both the US and Canada will create more polution because they are the most developed countries in the world, therefore producing more goods for the world to use.

[elstatec]

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":1c90a]

Originally Posted by elstatec

im not saying US didnt pollute before bush, im saying that the action to protecting the earth is now, with the kyoto Protocol now and bush not signing up to it.





And you shouldnt be so ignorant about this, what good is '% of the worlds goods' when there is no world left to live in?

The Koyoto Protocol shoudnt have been signed. It was not realistic for a developed nation.


the % of goods produced has everything to do with the amount of polution created. you cant compare Africa with the US (or even Canada) in terms of polution produced. Both the US and Canada will create more polution because they are the most developed countries in the world, therefore producing more goods for the world to use.[/quote:1c90a]

maybe you didnt hear me, there are many other developed nations, strongest economic being japan, huge producing in Taiwan and other countries that have a huge producing markets as big or bigger aswell BUT their countries have signed up to kyoto, so why can't America? Canada ratified the treaty so why not USA.

And to quote myself again incase you didnt read before

'what good is '% of the worlds goods' when there is no world left to live in?'

[Pyro]

The USA as the fastest developing country of the past century and their ignorance towards their new inventions (automobile and so on) are the reasons why we have this effect. There was a time when the USA alone was using 1/3rd of the worlds resources compared to the rest.

[Sgt>Stackem]

Originally Posted by Pyro

The USA as the fastest developing country of the past century and their ignorance towards their new inventions (automobile and so on) are the reasons why we have this effect. There was a time when the USA alone was using 1/3rd of the worlds resources compared to the rest.

thats because most of the others lived in huts

[Madmartagen]

the only things people over here care about are money and jobs. we are unwilling to develope alternate energy sources cause we're too lazy to change with the world. we are unwillling to join kyoto because we dont want to give up jobs and products.

[Sgt>Stackem]

alternate energy sources sounds great, running cars on water sounds great, turning trash into fuel sounds great but it isnt going to happen soon. There are people working on it but nothing realistic has come yet. Electric cars wont work. Hydrogen powered cars wont work. Some day an alternative will be found but until then it will be oil

[tomxtr]

[quote="Jin-Roh":96b39]Christians always seem to deny Global Warming.[/quote:96b39]

Global Warming is only a theory. In the last 100+ years, the US has maintained the best network of weather stations and the most accurate data on temperatures.

Here is what the data shows....

- The warmest year of the last century was 1934
- Since 1880, the mean temperature increase is only 1/3 of a degree celsius
- Temperatures have increased slightly in the last 30 years, about 1/2 degree celsius, but actually decreased by the same amount the previous 30 years
- Current temperatures in the US are the same as they were during the 1930s

Personally, I believe that the theory is solid, but there is not overwhelming amounts of data to support it. Also, the amount of time that data has been collected, is negligible when compared to the age of the earth.

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

the only things people over here care about are money and jobs. we are unwilling to develope alternate energy sources cause we're too lazy to change with the world. we are unwillling to join kyoto because we dont want to give up jobs and products.

We develop as much alternative energy as anyone. Nuclear power, for example. People bitch and moan about that. BTW, there are so many hybrids on the road in Northern VA and DC area, that they had to lift the HOV exemptions for them. I believe that it was something like 1 in 7 cars in the carpool lanes were hybrids.

[mR.cLeAn]

[quote:03e31]Kyoto: Why did the US pull out?[/quote:03e31]

I love the wording on the title ... Bush pulled out because the majority of the countries would not enforce the policies. Is like why join the chess club if you are not gona go to the meetings or practices or actual games.

I love how everything is Bush’s fault, yet while this was going with Clinton no one seemed to care, or complain to him. Bush has taken many steps to resolve problems like this … but noooooo lets just find the negative of everything. –Bush helps US economy by CAFTA, downside Americans will loose jobs … well get a better job fag is a global economie.

Yeah BS on article, I call for a reunion on 2030 to see if 'Dem' are still fags complaining about everything.

Instead of complaining about the US, just take action by going to other countries like Brazil and go help over there ... I've seen the mass deforestation and I did my part by bringing my own kerosene and matches.

[elstatec]

Originally Posted by tomxtr

- The warmest year of the last century was 1934
- Since 1880, the mean temperature increase is only 1/3 of a degree celsius
- Temperatures have increased slightly in the last 30 years, about 1/2 degree celsius, but actually decreased by the same amount the previous 30 years
- Current temperatures in the US are the same as they were during the 1930s

sorry where did you get this bullshit from? And just because the pollution hasnt affected temperatures in the US doesnt mean US's pollution hasnt affected the worlds temperatures or atmosphere.

Now something more realistic:

[img]http://img348.imageshack.us/img348/4329/instrumentaltemperaturerecord6.png[/img]
"This image shows the instrumental record of global average temperatures as compiled by the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia and the Hadley Centre of the UK Meteorological Office. Data set TaveGL2v was used. The most recent documentation for this data set is Jones, P.D. and Moberg, A. (2003) "Hemispheric and large-scale surface air temperature variations: An extensive revision and an update to 2001". Journal of Climate, 16, 206-223."




I cant believe how ignorant some of you are on this, it is just stupid that you stand so firm behind such a idiotic leader's every decision, such a wrong one on not ratifying the Kyoto Treaty.

[tomxtr]

Originally Posted by elstatec

sorry where did you get this bullshit from? And just because the pollution hasnt affected temperatures in the US doesnt mean US's pollution hasnt affected the worlds temperatures or atmosphere.

Sorry, should have qualified the data by saying in the US, where the data is dependable.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs/

Originally Posted by elstatec

I cant believe how ignorant some of you are on this, it is just stupid that you stand so firm behind such a idiotic leader's every decision, such a wrong one on not ratifying the Kyoto Treaty.

Personally, I don't. However, experts on the subject acknoledge that global warming is only a theory.

[elstatec]

[quote:e7ec6]

Originally Posted by elstatec

I cant believe how ignorant some of you are on this, it is just stupid that you stand so firm behind such a idiotic leader's every decision, such a wrong one on not ratifying the Kyoto Treaty.

Personally, I don't. However, experts on the subject acknoledge that global warming is only a theory.[/quote:e7ec6]

yes well when we are all living on boats itll still be a theory then too

[c312]

If you were to represent the gases that make up the atmosphere on a football field, CO2 would be approx. 3 inches on the field. Just an interesting fact.

And also, if you look at charts over the last hundreds and hundreds of years (I mean farther than 1800's) you can see that the temperature fluctuation we have had recently are concurrent with patterns from the past. The temp rises and falls over periods of time, remember, in the 60s people were complaining about the earth's temp dropping more than usual...

http://www.oism.org/pproject/review.pdf

^ a report that instigated a petition signed by 15,000 scientists/climatologists arguing that we didn't need to sign Kyoto.

[Madmartagen]

so you think that the way we are heading is fine? you dont think we need to make some changes soon? what do you think the earths temperature will be like in the next 20-30 years? do you think that this country is going to self conciously reduce its greenhouse emissions, waste or its burden on the worlds environment anytime soon? at this rate, i think not. when i read stuff like "global warming is a theory," it just sounds to me that people dont care about the subject; that they only make arguments because they feel like they have to defend the US and its govt. i dont think people here take this issue seriously enough.

[tomxtr]

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

so you think that the way we are heading is fine? you dont think we need to make some changes soon? what do you think the earths temperature will be like in the next 20-30 years? do you think that this country is going to self conciously reduce its greenhouse emissions, waste or its burden on the worlds environment anytime soon? at this rate, i think not. when i read stuff like "global warming is a theory," it just sounds to me that people dont care about the subject; that they only make arguments because they feel like they have to defend the US and its govt. i dont think people here take this issue seriously enough.

I certainly agree that we as human beings need to make some changes or sooner or later, the earth won't be able to sustain us. The literature that I've read recently suggests that the US, while being a contributor, won't be as big of a problem as China or India. Personally, I'd be happy as a clam if alternative clean energy were affordable for the average Joe. It'd be nice to tell the assholes in the Middle East to shove all their oil up their asses. The fact is, hybrid vehicles and solar power, are out of most people's reach. Although,

[elstatec]

Originally Posted by c312

http://www.oism.org/pproject/review.pdf

^ a report that instigated a petition signed by 15,000 scientists/climatologists arguing that we didn't need to sign Kyoto.

scientists probaly funded by the huge industrial companies behind/friends of the people in power.