[c312]

America's economy is not as government controlled as you make it seem. There are taxes, anti-trust laws, and the SEC, that's pretty much it...

[elstatec]

Originally Posted by c312

what EVIDENCE do you have that the defense contractors had any part in generating the War in Iraq?

if you check my post i didnt say anything about the defence contractors generating the War in Iraq.

but that they are benefiting from it and that is questionable.

[quote:e7fba]
'There are also uncomfortably cosy ties between the government and the defence industry. Mr Rumsfeld''s oldest friend, Frank Carlucci, a former defence secretary himself, now heads the Carlyle Group, an investment consortium which has a big interest in the contracting firm United Defense.

Carlyle''s board includes George Bush Sr and James Baker, the former secretary of state. One programme alone "the Crusader artillery system" has earned Carlyle more than $2bn in advance government contracts. Carlyle''s European chairman is John Major, who may have played a role in the Ministry of Defence''s controversial recent decision to declare Carlyle the "preferred bidder" for a stake in its scientific research division.'[/quote:e7fba]

http://www.why-war.com/news/2002/09/15/warwithi.html
2002 but still relevent to the point and still on subject.

[Machette]

American system at best does not follow a communist economic approach (Canada, EU countries, follow a sort of communist economy), the American system is described by many as a totally hands off economy. But I think we should keep on topic, whatever it was because a flame war is in play.

[c312]

The Crusader was cancelled in 2002.

and that article snippet isn't evidence, it's a relationship between people, it doesn't say anything of a direct link between the people besides the fact that they know each other...it's pure speculation.

that one article even says that Cheney cashed in his stock options in 2000, before the war started.

Originally Posted by c312

America's economy is not as government controlled as you make it seem. There are taxes, anti-trust laws, and the SEC, that's pretty much it...

The government issued price controlls on gas when there was a shortage in the 80's (if i recall correctly), and it was disasterous.

lets not forget the Fed too, but that is a different topic (That we debated a while ago, if you remember)

Machette: Only immature people start flame wars.

[c312]

The Fed only regulates loan interest rates.

and the oil thing is only because it was an emergency situation.

[elstatec]

Originally Posted by c312

The Crusader was cancelled in 2002.

and that article snippet isn't evidence, it's a relationship between people, it doesn't say anything of a direct link between the people besides the fact that they know each other...it's pure speculation.

that one article even says that Cheney cashed in his stock options in 2000, before the war started.

Cheney said so on that but the truth actually is:

"He also holds more than 433,000 stock options, all above Halliburton's most recently traded price, according to a report by the Congressional Research Office requested by Sen. Frank Lautenberg, a New Jersey Democrat" (2003)

http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/ ... rton.memo/
http://money.cnn.com/2003/09/25/news/co ... y/?cnn=yes
http://www.americanprogress.org/Account ... burton.pdf


And with the amount of conflicting interests, the amount of former/current politicians in government who have their hands in stocks of the defence companies or hold/held posistions within these companies something fishy may lie below, speculation yes as we may never know but it does not mean it may be true.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0, ... 57,00.html
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/081705E.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/ ... 6097.shtml
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0511-07.htm
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11240

[c312]

so what makes you jump to the conclusion that it is true?

[elstatec]

so what makes you jump to the conclusion that it is false?

its a subject that is hard to get the truth from but with all the events happening between these companies and the government it does beg to ask that to some extent its not right.

[Pyro]

Let's just come to the conclusion that in the end following any type of structure will still provide the country with struggles and faults...which is why countries need to adopt certain aspects of others to be able to cope with certain problems in their country.

It's not like America is doing a bad job...look at their standing in the world...but they just need aren't favourable in the eyes of others though.

[c312]

Originally Posted by elstatec

so what makes you jump to the conclusion that it is false?

its a subject that is hard to get the truth from but with all the events happening between these companies and the government it does beg to ask that to some extent its not right.

logic. Logic would demand evidence of what you propose, there needs to be proof for it to be true, whereas, if there is no proof (as in this case) then logic would suggest it is false.

Professional athletes may be on the same team as people who take steroids, but that doesn't mean they do also. They MIGHT, but you cannot logically make that conclusion until you have evidence.

[elstatec]

so for example, where was the evidence of WMDs in Iraq that made it a valid invasion? you would argue that there is so it would be logical for the invasion, and i would say otherwise.

two sides to the sword.

the truth is hidden alot in todays politics and you should know that, but it doesnt mean at all that these events or "conspiracies" have not took place, and the the stories involving government officials relations/gains etc to these companies begs that there is something there.

[c312]

Originally Posted by elstatec

so for example, where was the evidence of WMDs in Iraq that made it a valid invasion? you would argue that there is so it would be logical for the invasion, and i would say otherwise.

two sides to the sword.

the truth is hidden alot in todays politics and you should know that, but it doesnt mean at all that these events or "conspiracies" have not took place, and the the stories involving government officials relations/gains etc to these companies begs that there is something there.

your example is unclear, please explain it more clearly.