[Coleman]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,185952,00.html
interesting facts on this site. It talks about teens and their admitted sex habits.

[quote:40839]The online survey included more than 1,100 teens aged 14-17 and more than 1,100 moms of teens in the same age range.


--Nearly three in 10 teens aged 14-17 report being sexually active.

--At age 15, one in five was sexually active.

--Nearly half (45 percent) were sexually active by 17.

--Teens have had three partners, on average, since becoming sexually active.


—One in 20 teens had been diagnosed with a sexually transmitted infection.

—A quarter didn’t use any protection against STDs the last time they had sex.

—Half of those who used condoms the last time they had sex didn’t check to see if the condom was still intact after use.[/quote:40839]

[Johnj]

One of the arguments being used on the pro-abortion side is that the female knows that having the baby will "ruin" her life. If she can see into the future to know that, then why didn't she see that she was going to get pregnant from playing 'hide the trouser trout' with her loser boyfriend.

[c312]

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

the aborted "child" is a non-issue. it isnt yours, what do you care? you arent going to pay for it, you arent going to raise it, you arent going to spend the next 20+ years taking care of it - you wont even notice its existence.

I don't notice a kid's existence on the other side of the world, does that mean it's ok to kill it? that's a bad angle to argue.

and I think a lot of you are forgetting that children can be put up for adoption. there are people in america who want kids that can't have them, why kill it when you can give it to them?

another thing about value of life with abortions and death penalty. The death penalty shows a value of life. By having it in place as a punishment for murder, it shows that we value life very much and it deters people from murdering as often. Also, obviously, an unborn child is innocent whereas a person on death row has obviously done something wrong.

[Stammer]

Originally Posted by Coleman

rolleyes:

It's not that the Catholic Church thinks that condoms are abortions. Get your facts straight. They just don't like using any sort of contraceptive besides planned menstual cycles. They think it takes away the purpose of sex, which is to produce a "child of God". There is no way in hell that anyone could say a sperm cell in the tip of a condom is a baby.

and technically, you're not really "married" in the eyes of God until you have sex. That's when everything is finalized in the religion.

just thought you'd like those little FYI's before you speak again.

oOo:

It was more of a sarcastic statment then a serious one but sure why not.

[Coleman]

Originally Posted by Stammer

oOo:

It was more of a sarcastic statment then a serious one but sure why not.

the first part looks pretty seriously stated, but the last part is obvious sarcasm. I argued the first part in bold.

[TGB!]

[quote:3767f]Abortion would not have to be a choice if society helped these unexpected mothers more...[/quote:3767f]

Another fine comment that has no place in reality -

You think the majority of women who get abortions are down on their luck minorities/poor whites who cant afford a kid?

[quote:3767f]you 'pro lifers' force your moral opinions on other people about how life is sacred, but then cut funding for mothers who cant afford to raise kids[/quote:3767f]

The two have fuck all to do with each other. Because I dont agree with abitrarily ending the life of a child, means that I should then have to SUPPORT all these children? Hardly. Morally, I can disagree with homosexuality, but that doesnt mean I'm going to take it to the next step and start rallying against them, or distrubiting anti-gay literature.

[quote:3767f]precisely why they wanted the abortion in the first place.[/quote:3767f]

Ill rope you in with ol' Master ShortHand up there - what do you think are the reasons women get abortions. . .and what do you think the demographics are. You'd be suprised how many successful women are saying "Fuck this" when that urine-stick reads positive.

[quote:3767f]maybe you should worry about your own affairs and keep your noses out of other peoples business.[/quote:3767f]

Do you have a problem with older men/women have consensual sex with minors 12-18, or think people engaging in such actions such be prosecuted or have their actions regulated?

[quote:3767f]keep that in mind next time you think that girls shouldnt be having sex[/quote:3767f]

The sign of a weak argument, is when someone has to reframe what their opponent has said. Noone here said to NOT have sex. However if you have IRRESPONSIBLE SEX - then the consequences are on your head. Period.

[Tripper]

Has anyone ever heard of RAPE around here? It happens alot.....and rapists don't tend to use condoms.

I agree that there are irresponsible people out there that use abortion as a way out, but there are also deathly unfortunate people that use it as well. I know if I were a woman, and I were violently raped - I would want to abort the child. I have 2 friends that have been raped, both were savage attacks by men they never had met before - One of these girls had to have an abortion because she was so terrified an embarrased by what happened she couldn't even leave her house for weeks and so couldn't get the morning after pill...

There should be more regulation. Much more....but then again, I personally don't see at is a moral or religious issue...I see it as semi-appeasing the pro-lifers who seem to be making the changes like in SD and totally outlawing abortion leaving no chance for rape victims.

IMO, An aborted fetus is no more conscious than a deer/sheep/pig/cow you EAT for food. You don't even bat an eye at that. Infact, those animals are MORE conscious than the fetus ever were.

[Sgt>Stackem]

Originally Posted by c312

I think a lot of you are forgetting that children can be put up for adoption. there are people in america who want kids that can't have them, why kill it when you can give it to them?
.

Not nearly enough, this will be an interesting experiement. Taxes will go through the roof to house, feed and deal with the hundreds of thousands of unwanted children

[c312]

I think people underestimate the amount of children that people want to adopt. I think most kids in foster care that don't get adopted are the ones that were taken away from there parents too old to be adopted. I would have no problem funding foster homes and making sure they have good people running them than have the kids die.

[Stammer]

Originally Posted by c312

I think people underestimate the amount of children that people want to adopt. I think most kids in foster care that don't get adopted are the ones that were taken away from there parents too old to be adopted. I would have no problem funding foster homes and making sure they have good people running them than have the kids die.

Would you let same-sex couples adopt them?

[c312]

haven't thought about that. I don't agree with same sex marriage, but I don't think I want it restricted by the government either. I'll get back to you on that.

[Madmartagen]

Originally Posted by Coleman

I just don't understand how you can say, "she is going to let IT RUIN her life or have IT aborted and move on." I believe a child is something very sacred to me in my eyes, whether it was intended to be born or not. It isn't something that is as simple as making a decision to get your value meal Supersized or not. Eveything has a plan in life (another thing you probably disagree with me on that really doesn't have any gray area).
When it comes to mothers' health, well I think the family should decide what they want to do. In other words, abortions would be legal and "ok". Some families/mothers, as crazy as it sounds, would love to see their child grow up and lead a life. It's a sacrifice in their eyes. Let them do what they feel is right. The MOTHER knowingly can make a decision. The baby/fetus has no say in anything.

The fetus cant have a say in it because it isnt even alive...thats another difference in opinion that we have, but from the sound of your second statment, you agree that there should be a choice. Everyone knows what my opinions on abortions are, but thats what it comes down to - choices. Im not saying abortion is the quick and easy way out, im saying it should be an option for the mother to have on her own w/o any outside influence. the circumstances of her pregnancy are irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Nyck

I'm sorry but a child is never going "ruin" your life. It could bring hardships, but people should be thinking of that when they do the deed. That is a "risk" you take when doing it.
some US states
"47% of abortions are performed on women who have already had one or more abortions."
1 out of every 2 women getting an abortion have had this occur already showing IMO Gross Negligence.
Then its funny that 54% of the women say they used contreceptives.
There are 110 million women roughly in the US circa 2001 and 1 million abortions. 1 out of 10 women have it done, while the failure rate of contreceptives is usually less than 5%
This shows that if they are using these contreceptives they are being used incorrectly.
the largest reason for abortion(32%) is too young/immature/not ready for responsibility, Yet they feel they are old enough/mature enough/ready to have sex.

so you think someone who has a chronic pattern of making bad choices in life should be forced to have a kid? i think someone getting an abortion pretty much settles the argument of whether a kid would ruin her life or not. if it wasnt that much of a bad situation, then she prolly would have kept it. again, its up to her to make that choice.

Originally Posted by Johnj

One of the arguments being used on the pro-abortion side is that the female knows that having the baby will "ruin" her life. If she can see into the future to know that, then why didn't she see that she was going to get pregnant from playing 'hide the trouser trout' with her loser boyfriend.

women should be allowed to have inconsequential sex just as much as men are. and enough of the stereotypical 'girl gets preggers by her loser bf cause they were too stupid to know that sex = possible kids.' the majority of abortions may be performed on teens and young adults, but some older mothers, older women and people who just dont want any kids get abortions too.

Originally Posted by c312

I don't notice a kid's existence on the other side of the world, does that mean it's ok to kill it? that's a bad angle to argue. and I think a lot of you are forgetting that children can be put up for adoption. there are people in america who want kids that can't have them, why kill it when you can give it to them? another thing about value of life with abortions and death penalty. The death penalty shows a value of life. By having it in place as a punishment for murder, it shows that we value life very much and it deters people from murdering as often. Also, obviously, an unborn child is innocent whereas a person on death row has obviously done something wrong.

[b]im not arguing that kids should be killed just because its out of your conciousness, they arent even kids. i dont think there are enough people in this country who want kids but cant have their own to curb out some sort of imagined epidemic of abortions. there are probably too many unattended kids at the moment and probably the vast majority of kids who get adopted are less than 2 years old, what about the kids no one wants to adopt? im all for adoption, i think it is a much better choice than abortion, but im not going to speak for some other girl, it may be a good alternative for her.[b]


[quote="TGB!":ebc60][quote:ebc60]Abortion would not have to be a choice if society helped these unexpected mothers more...[/quote:ebc60]
Another fine comment that has no place in reality -
You think the majority of women who get abortions are down on their luck minorities/poor whites who cant afford a kid?
[quote:ebc60]you 'pro lifers' force your moral opinions on other people about how life is sacred, but then cut funding for mothers who cant afford to raise kids[/quote:ebc60]
The two have fuck all to do with each other. Because I dont agree with abitrarily ending the life of a child, means that I should then have to SUPPORT all these children? Hardly. Morally, I can disagree with homosexuality, but that doesnt mean I'm going to take it to the next step and start rallying against them, or distrubiting anti-gay literature.
[quote:ebc60]precisely why they wanted the abortion in the first place.[/quote:ebc60]
Ill rope you in with ol' Master ShortHand up there - what do you think are the reasons women get abortions. . .and what do you think the demographics are. You'd be suprised how many successful women are saying "Fuck this" when that urine-stick reads positive.
[quote:ebc60]maybe you should worry about your own affairs and keep your noses out of other peoples business.[/quote:ebc60]
Do you have a problem with older men/women have consensual sex with minors 12-18, or think people engaging in such actions such be prosecuted or have their actions regulated?
[quote:ebc60]keep that in mind next time you think that girls shouldnt be having sex[/quote:ebc60]
The sign of a weak argument, is when someone has to reframe what their opponent has said. Noone here said to NOT have sex. However if you have IRRESPONSIBLE SEX - then the consequences are on your head. Period.[/quote:ebc60]

i think a good portion of abortions are performed on kids who cant afford to raise a kid, yes? how is that so surprising and far from reality? cut funding has alot to do with abortion, if there were local daycare programs and health care available to someone who was pregnant, that may entice her to keep and raise the baby. if she's going into a pregnancy w/o any help, then i would think that she would feel like shes at the end of her rope. when i said to mind your business im talking about people getting abortions, so dont try and turn this into something else. rape and incest are crimes, abortions are not. how is my last point a weak argument, read what others have written and tell me that people arent saying 'oh its her fault cause she fucked someone and now shes screwed, lololol.' I think women should be able to have sex just as much as guys can and its a fact that teens and younger people are having sex - that isnt going to change. why make a problem of teen pregnancy worse by making another problem of more teen and underage mothers? i think the whole babies are miracles routine is weak and i think the whole attitude of 'oh youre pregnant, well tough shit' is fucking lame because that does not provide any solution to this problem.

[c312]

mad just doesn't see fetuses as life, that's the main issue here. With that different view, it is impossible for us to argue, you can't argue two sides when boths sides don't agree on the premises, it's useless. and mad, you are certainly entitled to think that fetuses aren't life, i just think that's a stupid way to think about the issue.

[Madmartagen]

Originally Posted by c312

mad just doesn't see fetuses as life, that's the main issue here. With that different view, it is impossible for us to argue, you can't argue two sides when boths sides don't agree on the premises, it's useless. and mad, you are certainly entitled to think that fetuses aren't life, i just think that's a stupid way to think about the issue.

yes that is part of my point of view, but it also may be someone else's. i think the whole abortion issue is getting sidetracked; people do have kids, people do put their children up for adoption. some people get abortions. i think the choice should be open and it should be up for the mother, whats wrong with that? if people are going to make concessions for rape victims and health issues, then whats the point of putting limits? there certainly isnt a child shortage crisis going on - there are more than enough humans on this planet.

[c312]

yes but if you thought that fetuses were lives, then you wouldn't want people to have a choice to kill them or not, because it woul dbe killing a person. Right now, it's not killing a person to you, which leads you to the rest of your conclusion on the issue. It all stems from whether or not you think fetuses are alive or not.