[ninty]

Pyro, please. I don't need that shit here.

[Pyro]

Originally Posted by ninty

Pyro, please. I don't need that shit here.

I call what Stackem says to be shit as well. His shit's allowed, then mine is. Ever since he said Canada didn't help USA with the hurricane he deserves everything I say to him.

[ninty]

Your reference has absolutley nothing to do with anything. Thus keep it in offtopic.

[Sgt>Stackem]

Ive taken zero offence to what pyro has said to me, no biggie we just see things through different glasses

[Pyro]

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":9bddf]Ive taken zero offence to what pyro has said to me, no biggie we just see things through different glasses[/quote:9bddf]

Shit happens. beer:

[Trunks]

[quote="newt.":edc32][quote=ninty]

Originally Posted by "newt.":edc32

iraq is a front on the war against terrorism.

Care to elaborate at all?[/quote:edc32]

iraq is, or should be, the beginning to a much larger offensive against terrorism. I dunno if it was right or wrong, just or whatever to invade iraq but now that were there, and our persince is known we need to send a message to radicals throughout the world, that terrorism will not stand, whereever they might hide we must find them/capture them/kill them, whatever country abets terrorists we must overthrow and replace it with something, whatever that is, by the majority of people in that region. I dunno if its "just" or "right" on the world scale, but I would rather have the USA, and its allies in control then terrorist holding the threat of a suicide bombing over our heads.[/quote:edc32]here is where I completely disagree. Dont you get it? By fighting terrorism with our fists we are simply convincing more and more people that we are evil, and we want to make the rest of the world like us. People dont like that. if you begin to wage war against every country that you suspect has terrorists, prepare to wage war on the world. And countries wont just let you invade them to search for terrorists. You can prepare yourself for a conventional and uncoventional war. Plus there is the fact that the US military is not large enough to begin invading any country they want at will. For some reason many people support blindly the US's position and justify it, but those same people go out and critisize Russia for the way it handles chechen, and Israel for the way they are handling the palestinians. The reason why those kids hate Americans so much is not only because they were taught so. Another big reason is because America came in and killed their parents, and invaded their country. If you were them youd be pissed too. Dont you see, you cant win a war like this. America can critisize Russia and Israel, but then goes and makes the same mistake they do. Every militant you kill, 5 more will sign up. You cant win a war like this, unless you want to wage a war of extermination, instead of a war on terrorism.


[quote:edc32]what does it matter? we're there, now lets lift up the men and women who are being shot at, and make sure that their efforts do not go unnoticed. right or wrong...the armchair generals and quasi-political experts need to shut their mouths.[/quote:edc32] Care to tell me what those soldiers are fighting for Chappy? What they are getting shot, and killed for? What they are risking their lives for? For America. If it has come to the point where people can no longer object to the way something was/has been handled, then what kind of America are the soldiers really fighting for? I thought America was all about freedom of speach and expression, etc. So then why do people like you say things like this? You critisize other countries for oppressing peoples rights and yet you try to do the same things here. I will not shut my mouth, because if I do, this isnt America anymore.

[TGB!]

What a silly thread which - as usual - has no real basis in relevant current events.

Great - there are some folks who believe that Saddam had ties to AQ, to 9/11 and had stockpiles of WMD's. . .and - shocks and shit-kittens they are Conservative (as if there arent liberals who believe any one of those three). Newsflash - people manufacture their own realities to support their beliefs. Some neo-cons believe all three - how many Left-Wing liberals believe Bill Clinton didnt do anything wrong, that Bush "stole" both elections, that blacks were intimidated at polling places, that - because of Fed Fuckupery - blacks were dying every hour in the Superdome; nevermind that not a SINGLE one of those previous statements has been proven true. Yet people believe it all the same.

When I see articles/threads like this I'm always amused at what "facts" are missing from the refutation: that Saddam HAS aided terrorist efforts (such as providing for the families of Palestenian suicide bombers, medical aid to Abu Nidal a terrorist - who nobly commited "suicide" in Iraq", providing support for Abdul Rahman Yasin - that wacky guy involved in the first WTC bombing), that he DID violate numerous UN Sanctions (including possessing weapons/ordinance that he should not have), and that he was using the OFF program to relax attention and sanctions on his country (check Paul Volkers report) - certainly for philanthropic concerns.

No no, the focus is always on the spurious and "9/11, AQ link and WMD" arguments that are made and easily "shot down". Never does the argument narrow BEYOND these three accusations to show what Saddam HAS done, and was trying to accomplish - because to do so would actually mean to argue a point that isnt so cut-and-dry, it would mean having the overarching argument of "The US rushed to war" attacked and shown to be an invalid limited view of the situation. This is how the anti-war peanut-gallery plays - "frame the argument around a proven fallacy, so that by implication you can invalidate all other positions of the pro-war front".

Sloppy silly, and sadly - not over yet.

[ninty]

[quote="TGB!":c8232]people manufacture their own realities to support their beliefs. [/quote:c8232]

[Poseidon]

I agree with alot of people with different points, having different views.

This is my view:

I couldnt care less whether we are at war with iraq/saddam. What I EXPECT is a decent reasoning BEFORE the to troops are deployed. We as in Bush and Blair told us something along the lines of:
"saddam husain HAS WMD, AND are planning to use them, he also has connections to the terrorist attacks and al-quieda. We are invading this country to remove such weapons. and to remove him from power."

ALL of these statements ARE FALSE.which is what ive always had a problem with If we had been told the truth, that saddam has done x amount of war crimes etc etc. I'd have semi-supported the war to take him out of power.

Onto my second reason. A war against terrorism had just started, our troops were deployed to afghanistan to remove asama bin laden due to his connection to 9/11. 4 YEARS onwards. This man has not been found. WHY THE FUCK? This man was behind the biggest terrorist plot against the USA in years. ALL of the USA's resourses should have been made to find and remove him and al-quieda. But instead of this, they decided to invade/start a war against another country for a different reason!!

My third point:

Tony blair has his head sooo stuck up bush's arse its untrue. Whatever/wherever bush does, blair is arse licking him all the way. This country now has no independance. We will now follow the USA into everything. I agree we should have helped in the search for asama. But invading a country for a still unjustified reason. I am totally against.

We are an independant country. We should be able to make our own decisions, if we think something is wrong we should have the right to say no. Im not sure who it was but someone said 'Our only real allies are Great Britain and Australia' WTF? thats the most ignorant thing ive ever heard. I wish we hadnt have invaded iraq. If we hadnt invaded iraq would we be considered lesser allie than australia?

Please correct me if any of my statements are 'false' (and provide proof)