Would you vote for Bush in 2004? - Page 5

Drew · 01-08-2004, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Madmartagen

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noctis

A) We are not a Socialist country. The Nazis were Socialist. We are Capitalists.

Nazis and the Communists were socialists, its just that one was on the far left and the other is on the far right. There is no such thing as being just socialist, we are a democratic-republic that has liberal, conservative and socialist policies that are implemented in every administration. We take steps to empower our economy with capitalism, but on the other hand we have to check that power with more socialist programs. If we were a true capitalist society, we would have fair trade, no tariffs, no payoffs for bankrupt airline companies or financial corporations. We use socialist solutions to balance the losses accrued by capitalist ventures (not saying capitalism doesnt work, im all for capitalism).

B) The United States Military has had a policy that predates WWII of being able to fight a full scale war simultaneously on two fronts. Any analyst will tell you this is not possible today. In addition, we had to call up reserves just to go to Afghanistan, which should be enough by itself to tell you the military is hurting. Clinton broke the military's back, end of story. Be glad there was a Republican in office this term. Gore would have slapped the Taliban on the wrist and walked away with a sore asshole.

You bring in an analyst that says our military cant fight a two front war, and I will bring in one who says we can. Big fucking deal, ok? End of story? Not really, our military is still the finest in the world and was able to lay the smack down on the Taliban, Serbia, and Iraq. I don't see how Clinton broke the militarys back when he had the same budget expenditure as Bush did pre 9/11. Its obvious to say our military has more money now when we have troops in the field. I agree with you on the last remark you made. I am glad Bush is here to deal with the Taliban, because I don't think Gore would have the stomach for this kind of campaign.

C) Way to not even address the issue at hand, which would be that tax cuts are also going to the lower classes. The biggest consumers are the middle class, and they've had one tax cut already with another one coming. And as far as all the complaints about the rich getting tax cuts... Number one, who do you think puts up the money for new companies and ideas to be realized? Who gives loans or invests in small businesses that need some help? And for God's sake, why is it fair for them to lose nearly half their money to taxes when you only lose 20%? The media talks all these big numbers that make it seem way unfair, but the people in the highest tax bracket in the US still pay more than double what we do percentage-wise in taxes, and probably pay more in taxes each year than you'll make in your lifetime. So stop being ignorant and come off that. As I've said, the stability of the stock market both has to do with the backlash from reckless expenditures from the Clinton Administration catching up, and most importantly the worst act of terrorism this country has seen.

I believe I did address the tax cut issue, only I didnt spend as much time elaborating on it. Why should the enormously wealthy pick up the slack? Maybe its because of the tax breaks (not cuts) they get now that more than offsets the money they have to give back to the government. No taxes on stock earnings, no tax on estates? You think Dick Cheney, George Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, Al Rowe and Newt Gengrich know how to dodge taxes in April? I bet they do, and I bet they do more than anyone else. They should also pick up the slack because they are the ones who created this shit in the first place. The middle and lower class are consumers/end users. Their job is to spend, spend, spend and we do that very well. Who manipulates the budget, defecit, economy and taxes? If a wealthy person lost half their money every year in taxes, they wouldnt be wealthy anymore, now would they? I dont think we have had a serious riches to rags story going on in our country since the great depression. Finally, the stability of the stock market also depends on wealthy CEO's not inflating their profits, doing insider trading, and destroying employees 401k by selling thier own shares AFTER preventing others from doing so. I wonder if these TX based firms have any friends in the white house?

I dont blame 9/11 on Bush so WTF?

D) See above.

rolleyes:

Linking to senate.gov does not make you smart. Please try again post-education.

I'm sorry, I didn't have my article published in the National Economics, because I was sick the day it was due. Just because someone published your ziggy cartoon in a third rate periodical doesnt mean you are the only one on this forum capable of making a rebuttle. Since we are on the topic of challenging credibility, I would like to point out that you did not reference any source material at all in your post. Like everyone on this forum you were expressing an opinion. You, however, seem to think that just because you post it, it MUST be a fact. Get off your high horse and STFU, kthx.

Didn't see anything in there that couldn't be rebutted by repeating myself, so I'll just encourage you to re-read.

Third rate? It's a journal published across the entire nation and can be found in most major university libraries. Mmmmkay.

And of course it's right if I post it.

Zap. USMC · 01-08-2004, 07:31 PM

I thought the Nazis were fascists? cool:

Madmartagen · 01-08-2004, 08:09 PM

[quote="Cpt. Zapotoski":e003c]I thought the Nazis were fascists? cool:[/quote:e003c]

Yes they were. The Nazi party, or NSDAP, stands for the National Socialist German Workers Party. They are both socialists and fascists.

Zap. USMC · 01-08-2004, 08:39 PM

[quote=Madmartagen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Cpt. Zapotoski":6efe8

I thought the Nazis were fascists? cool:

Yes they were. The Nazi party, or NSDAP, stands for the National Socialist German Workers Party. They are both socialists and fascists.[/quote:6efe8]

Aye.

Kind of funny how the Germans called themselves "Socialists" yet Hitler HATED the Russians... "socialism" is a Russian theory.

01-08-2004, 08:48 PM

[quote="Cpt. Zapotoski":fd88e][quote=Madmartagen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by "Cpt. Zapotoski":fd88e

I thought the Nazis were fascists? cool:

Yes they were. The Nazi party, or NSDAP, stands for the National Socialist German Workers Party. They are both socialists and fascists.[/quote:fd88e]

Aye.

Kind of funny how the Germans called themselves "Socialists" yet Hitler HATED the Russians... "socialism" is a Russian theory.[/quote:fd88e]

Socialism is a German-French theory actually, Karl Marx was a kraut and I think Engels lived in France.

I understand that to have "true" socialism you need to have the means of production be owned by the government (suposedly in the interest of the people). I understood from reading WWII books that Germany still had privately owned companies before and during WWII, so they were not really socialists. So even with progressive taxes we are not "spiralling into socialism"

Eames · 01-08-2004, 08:58 PM

Engels was a kraut too. And the germans were "national socialist" which is a far right version of socialism also known as "facism" . The german state controled everything, every aspect of peoples life. The germans did not hate socialist, they hated communist, because they felt that world bolshevism and world judiasm went hand in hand.

and btw i havent been reading the other pages how the hell did a topic on bush geting elected turn to what govt the nazis had??

Zap. USMC · 01-08-2004, 09:01 PM

[quote:e251e]because they felt that world bolshevism and world judiasm went hand in hand. [/quote:e251e]

How are they alike? I believe the Bolshevik party were athiests and actually stripped religion from the culture... unless Stalin did that, not really sure.

01-08-2004, 09:06 PM

[quote="Cpt. Zapotoski":551ce][quote:551ce]because they felt that world bolshevism and world judiasm went hand in hand. [/quote:551ce]

How are they alike? I believe the Bolshevik party were athiests and actually stripped religion from the culture... unless Stalin did that, not really sure.[/quote:551ce]

its called propaganda, sort of like the more extremeist Mid East countries say that the US government (both Republicans and Democrats) are really working for the Jews rolleyes:

SW-14 · 01-08-2004, 09:16 PM

[quote=Zoner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by "SW-14":7d764

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoner

There is NO FRIGGIN' WAY I'm voting for Bush in 2004. Nossir, you can't make me and I won't give in!!!

oOo:

You know the reason WHY, right?[/quote:7d764]

Yes, that's why I thought it was funny.

pest · 01-09-2004, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noctis

C) Way to not even address the issue at hand, which would be that tax cuts are also going to the lower classes. The biggest consumers are the middle class, and they've had one tax cut already with another one coming. And as far as all the complaints about the rich getting tax cuts... Number one, who do you think puts up the money for new companies and ideas to be realized? Who gives loans or invests in small businesses that need some help? And for God's sake, why is it fair for them to lose nearly half their money to taxes when you only lose 20%? The media talks all these big numbers that make it seem way unfair, but the people in the highest tax bracket in the US still pay more than double what we do percentage-wise in taxes, and probably pay more in taxes each year than you'll make in your lifetime. So stop being ignorant and come off that. As I've said, the stability of the stock market both has to do with the backlash from reckless expenditures from the Clinton Administration catching up, and most importantly the worst act of terrorism this country has seen.

Wow, worst case of Rush inspired Republican party rhetoric I have seen in a bit. And fairly ignorant in spots too.

Where to start....lets see..

Sure, the rich do much of the investing, but retirement plans, 401k and other related investments are now mostly funded thru employee plans, meaning the middle class. And even when its the rich investing directly instead of thru the markets, they get tax breaks. THATS why they invest in this sector, trust me, its not out of philantropic tendencies. Nice attempt to deflect the truth there. And income on investments is taxed at a fixed cap gains percentage, lower than the "upper classes" base rate.

Lose half their money to taxes???? This is the worst statement you have made. The highest tax bracket is nowhere near 50%, its closer to 35%. And its not half their money, its half there taxable income. So someone can never lose the principle to taxes. No riches to rags scenario there, unless the riches are plain dumb. You also conveniently left out the part about progressive taxation. The rich are taxed for their first 100,000 income exactly the same rate as the guy that only makes 100k. They are taxed at higher rates on only the amounts over that particular bracket. Good attempt to deflect the real issues and good use of very exagerated numbers.

Now to address the accusations that everyone but you is ignorant. Economics is ALL theory. And there are lots of theories out there. Just because someone doenst subscribe to the same one as some random bellhop, doesnt mean they are ignorant, especially when the theories are mixed with politics. The excessive use of name calling in your threads takes away from any credibility you may or may not have.

ErichHartmann · **Well, -** 01-09-2004, 10:53 AM

I can't vote yet but i would if i could. He has ade a huge diffrence unlike bill.
He is anti-terroism which is the best thing you can be and Fight it for our freedom, He did something right after sept 11 to protect us and if you don't like him. Think what he did for the american people protecting you ass so you can live not talk bad things about this great guy. I would think you have no heart if you don't like him.

Bush is like regan to great guys

pest · **Re: Well, -** 01-09-2004, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ErichHartmann

Think what he did for the american people protecting you ass so you can live not talk bad things about this great guy. I would think you have no heart if you don't like him.

Actually, the current administration has taken away more personal rights and freedoms than any other in memory. Which president hasnt protected our asses?

KTOG · 01-09-2004, 12:05 PM

Ralph Nader 4 life

Madmartagen · 01-09-2004, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KTOG

Ralph Nader 4 life

Hey it could happen if CA was the only state in the US. Whenever I see him on a debate it always looks like he's ready to box the other opponent out. Thats what we need next election, a fist fight.

General Cobra · 01-09-2004, 01:43 PM

Once again the people of American must choose from duche bag #1 or duche bag #2. I for one am not gonna bother until there are some REAL people on the ballot worth voting for. I cant bitch so I don't. I don't vote because why vote for either one when I know they are just a bunch of arrogant pompus jackasses that sucked mommas titty too long so they think everyone owes them something? All they do is throw around their weight and never solve a fucking thing.

As for waiting for the REAL people to show up on the ballot.... let's just say I prob won't be voting for the rest of my life on Presidential Elections.