[c312]

Originally Posted by Trunks

2) What will solve the terrorist problem? Well for right now Im thinking about how to prevent it from getting worse. Kinda like when you are in quick sand. First you stop moving/panicking so u stop sinking, then you look for a way out. However, a possibility would be meeting with terroist leaders, and attempting to negotiate with them. kinda like what Israel is trying to do with the Palestinians.

Meeting them? They would never do that. Even if they did, the United States doesn't negotiate with terrorists.

[Trunks]

Originally Posted by tomxtr

My sentiments, exactly. I don't think Israel is negotiating with the leaders of Hamas and other terror organizations.

Its better than attempting to wipe them off the face of the planet while simontaneously lowering america's standing with the rest of the world. Its worth a shot at least. And just to let you know, if Israel negotiates with the Palestinian leadership/government, that is supposedly in charge of groups like Hamas, then it is, whether you like it or not, indirectly negotiating with Hamas. And of course, america doesnt negotiate with terroists. Lets throw away teh lives of 2100 as of yesterday I believe, American soldiers because America is to proud to negotiate. Oh wait, too late, we already did. And the muslims in America might not agree with the muslims under Osama but I can assure you that Muslims in countries like Iran and Syria, are a different story.

[c312]

2100 over the course of a couple years
vs.
thousands in one day...

2100 = less than number of people who died on 9/11.

Forgot about that one didn't ya? They kill 3,000 of us in one day and we have 2000 die in a couple years of trying to stop it from happening again...

I know how we can solve this, we need to just send Trunks, the Dragonball Z kid to negotiate with Osama Bin Laden. He'll get the work done, he seems to be optimistic of the chances of negotiating with crazed mad men. Go for it, since you think the world is so easy breezy, go for it. Good luck, try not to get your head chopped off in the first few days...

[Trunks]

[quote:d1a13]2100 over the course of a couple years
vs.
thousands in one day...

2100 = less than number of people who died on 9/11.

Forgot about that one didn't ya? They kill 3,000 of us in one day and we have 2000 die in a couple years of trying to stop it from happening again...[/quote:d1a13] I look at it as 2100 MORE people who DIED attempting to prevent it from happening again when in reality theyve only increased hostilities between terrorists and other countries, and because of the actions of their governments, have made almost every single country more suceptible to terrorist attacks. When the smart thing to do would have been to negotiate, to insure that something like that doesnt happen again. Knowledge is power. If you know why they did what they did, you can prevent it from happening again. And 2100 people would still be alive if we had done the smart thing...

[quote:d1a13]I know how we can solve this, we need to just send Trunks, the Dragonball Z kid to negotiate with Osama Bin Laden. He'll get the work done, he seems to be optimistic of the chances of negotiating with crazed mad men. Go for it, since you think the world is so easy breezy, go for it. Good luck, try not to get your head chopped off in the first few days...[/quote:d1a13]OK, I am choosing to ignore some of what you have said, because I dont want to get into a flame war. *bites his lip* OK, I am NOT optimistic about negotiating with terrorists, but it is a hell of a lot better than blowing them up! Look at the Russian Chechen wars, Russia doesnt want to negotiate and look what happens then. When in reality, if they had just let that tiny little peace of land secede, they could have avoided all the bloodshed. And before you say, NO WAY TRUNKS U DONT KNOW WHAT UR TALKING BOUT, I will say I am russian, and that I know people who would be very angry with me for saying what I am about to say, but its true. The whole school taken hostage, the theater taken hostage, thousands of russian soldiers dead, thousands of chechen soldiers and civilians dead, all that could have been avoided, THROUGH NEGOTIATION. A wise man once said, "If you do not learn from the past, you are bound to repeat it." you my friend, are joining the growing bandwagon of people who will repeat the mistakes of the past, over and over and over again. Maybe one day people like you will take the time to open your eyes...or maybe not.

[Johnj]

Trunks, you are failing to understand that there is nobody to negotiate with. Just a faceless, nameless demand that governmental power be handed over.

[Poseidon]

^ditto,

besides no terrorist leader is going to put his life at risk by meeting up with negotiators. Anyway even if this did happen, there are thousands of other poeple who think in exactly the same way, and will not just change just because one group/person has decided to negotiate.

Originally Posted by Trunks

I am NOT optimistic about negotiating with terrorists, but it is a hell of a lot better than blowing them up!

I cant see the terrorists wanting to sit down and have a cup of tea and a chat,

[mR.cLeAn]

I would like to blow up a terrorist, give them a vest filled with/ C4 and send him to see BL

[Trunks]

lol i can see its all versus one on this issue.

Originally Posted by Johnj

Trunks, you are failing to understand that there is nobody to negotiate with. Just a faceless, nameless demand that governmental power be handed over.

Every person, organization, etc has a purpose. And they usually dont have the purpose of taking over the world, since that would be futile. Chechens didnt want control of russia, they wanted their own little country. Nobody will set a goal for themselves that they will never be able to achieve, because it is crushing mentally when time keeps going by, they re doing their best, and yet they are not making progress. And I am sure the nameless, faceless enemy is not stupid. They realize that thousands of their own soldiers aer dieing. I'm sure if we can point a gun and shoot down 1000's of people, we can negotiate with them. Posiedon, you do have a point...but groups like Al-Quaida arent democracies, what the top guy says, goes. And changing peoples minds wont be easy by any means, but it is possible. And part of that would be showing them that America isnt merciless, cold, ruthless, etc, as they are led to believe.

[Johnj]

Originally Posted by Trunks

Every person, organization, etc has a purpose.

Every rational person, rational organization, rational etc should have a rational purpose. All to often these groups serve no purpose at all, except anarchy.

Originally Posted by Trunks

Chechens didnt want control of russia, they wanted their own little country.

Do you think a majority of Chechens want a fundamentalist Islamic government or do you think a large number of them a scared out of their wits and just trying to stay alive. Remember you’re either with the jihadists or your getting beheaded.

Originally Posted by Trunks

I'm sure if we can point a gun and shoot down 1000's of people, we can negotiate with them.

Once again negotiate with whom? Negotiate for what? The goal is to make the world Islamic and kill all the infidels.

[Sgt>Stackem]

NEVER negotiat with terrorists


NEVER

[geRV]

[quote="Sgt>Stackem":5ff61]NEVER negotiat with terrorists


NEVER[/quote:5ff61]

Doubt they know what "negotiat" means anyway. eek:

[Trunks]

[quote=geRV]

Originally Posted by "Sgt>Stackem":f6974

NEVER negotiat with terrorists


NEVER

Doubt they know what "negotiat" means anyway. eek:[/quote:f6974] happy:
Anyway, on a more serious note, terrorists are enemies, just like Germany was during ww1+ww2, just like the U.S.S.R. was during the cold war. So, why should we not negotiate? true, they are a different type of enemy, but they are an enemy nontheless. And we have a chance that our negotiations will be successful. A small chance, possibly even miniscule, but it is still there. And if it is there, it is my solemn belief that we should take it.

JohnJ
1) Anarchy? I doubt they want that. Some terrorist groups perhaps, but not the ones we are speaking of. I believe that they are fighting against America because they are raised to hate America. They see America as a ruthless oppressor, that threatens their way of life. If you were in their position, would you not want to fight back? What you need to understand is that a lot of these terrorists are young adults and kids sitting at home making home-made bombs so that they can continue to wage their "jihad" after their father, and brothers were, in their minds, ruthlessly murdered by American soldiers. Even more simply believe America has overstayed its welcome in Iraq, and want it out of their country. Still others see Iraq as confirmation of America's treachery and rush to fight it on that front. if we meet violence with violence, we will simply be playing into the terrorists hands. After all, they expect no better from us. But we can prove them wrong. We can show them that we are willing to compromise in order to save lives, that we are willing to work together to make the world a safer place. We must show them that America is not what they have been told, thereby uprooting their reason to fight.

2) Toucher. You made a good point, and I can't really rebut you on that front.

3) Are you so sure you know your enemy so well, as to, gun them down relentlessly with no chance for peace? The mentality of, "The enemy is pure evil, they will not negotiate," has brought about wars instead of peace, crushing once flourishing civilizations. I will take ww1 as an example. Serbian rebels(as some view them), or terroists(as others view them), assasinated Astro-Hungarian Archduke Franz Ferdinand. Astro-Hungaria declared war on Serbia, and in that instant ignited one of the most horrific wars they world has ever seen. A true testament to what humans can do to each other, when they have that mentality(the enemy is not worth negotiating with/won't negotiate.) Now think. MILLIONS of innocent civilians, as well as soldiers died between 1914-1918. All because one man was assassinated. Astro-Hungaria declared a WAR on a country, simply because ONE man was assassinated. Negotiating with those danmed serbian terroists would have been futile of course....or so we think...but we will never know, will we?

Anyway, I have digressed, but my final point of the day will be that, I highly doubt all the jihadists want to have an islamic world free from infidels. Some, perhaps. But not all. Many believe they are fighting tyranny. Many believe they are fighting to avenge the deaths of their loved ones. And many believe they are fighting to rid their country of America presence/imperialism.

[Sgt>Stackem]

no matter what they said I couldnt believe them, if you have an agreement with a country then there are some ramifacatins for said country if they reneig. With a band of outlaws there is no way to hold them to any agreements made. There is nowhere to apply santions, there is no recourse. KILL 'EM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Johnj]

Unfortunate, but true. These jihadists are outlaws in their own countries, because no country would want to suffer the consequences of their actions. They may be popular for a while, but their true colors always end up guiding their actions. Murder and mayhem are all they know.

The men who killed the Archduke Franz Ferdinand were anarchists. They achieved their goal and plunged all of Europe into 4 years of anarchy and chaos.

You can not negotiate with terrorists. You can only negotiate with equals, men who believe in life, not those who glorify death.

[c312]

the Archduke's assassination was not the cause of WWI, it only triggered the start, just like Lincoln's election triggered the Civil War, they both had much more complex issues involved.