[Eight Ace]

"Canada has become the first state to announce a full boycott of the newly elected Hamas
administration in the occupied Palestinian territories, declaring an end to all diplomatic
contacts and a freeze on annual aid worth $US21 million ($29 million).

The new Hamas Information Minister, Youssef Rizka, said that Canada's action showed
obvious bias to Israel. "What we need from the Canadian Government is that it ask the
Israeli authorities to admit that they are occupying Palestinian land," he told Associated Press.

Hamas says it will not abandon its official aim of the destruction of the state of Israel
unless Israel also makes concessions, but following its election victory two months ago
it has seemed to signal a more pragmatic approach."


[url=http://smh.com.au/news/world/canada-cuts-ties-stops-aid-to-hamas/2006/03/30/1143441277212.html:54366]Article[/url:54366]

[Machette]

Yeah two weeks ago Peter Mckay (foreign minister) said they wouldn't cut it..ended up they did, talk about tap dancing. I wish the Canadians were not so gullible that they ended up voting for the conservative party, they are 3 months in office and already Harper looks like a tool.. oOo:

[Johnj]

Hamas is now the government of the Palestinian people. Governments don't commit terrorist acts against their neighbors, they commit acts of war.

[Machette]

You don't think the Palestinian people elected Hamas because they were getting sick and tired of what Israel is doing to them? Do you think that it had something do with 1.3 Israelites die compared to 3.4 Palestinians, most of whom are bystanders. I can give you many more comparisons of injustice the Palestinians face. Also something like 67% of Israels (from a poll in the beginning of march) wanted Kadima to actually talk with Hamas..but instead Israel is going to go ahead and build a wall and that will end it all. And the wall is largely in favor for more land for Israel and less for Palestine. I can see where the whole "they are suicide bombers and terrorist, you can not negotiate with a terrorist because he has no morals" debate comes into play. But people need to look at the problems Palestinians face, they have had it far worse than a person living in Israel. If America gave more aid to Palestine and less to Israel, and cut off the whole "Israel lobby" that runs America's foreign policy, such a mess in that region wouldn't be such a problem.

[Johnj]

So what your advocating is that we join in with Hamas and sneak attack Israel.

What I'd like to see happen is a 1 year cease fire. Or even a 1 month ceasefire.

But what we will see is Hamas will start sending the stupid bombers back into Israel, then Israel will retaliate.

Remember Israel has bigger bombs and a bigger army. No other Arab nation will come to Palestinians aid, because Israel will kick all their asses.


THE ONLY THING YOU CAN DO WITH AN ENEMY IS KILL THEM OR MAKE THEM YOUR FREIND.

wallbash:

[Eight Ace]

Originally Posted by Machette

If America gave more aid to Palestine and less to Israel, and cut off the whole "Israel lobby" that runs America's foreign policy, such a mess in that region wouldn't be such a problem.

Is America now running Canadas foreign policy?

[Machette]

I won't speculate that America now runs our foreign policy because a conservative is in power but I am inclined to believe that if the Liberals were in power, they would not do this.

[Eight Ace]

Originally Posted by Machette

You don't think the Palestinian people elected Hamas because they were getting sick and tired of what Israel is doing to them? Do you think that it had something do with 1.3 Israelites die compared to 3.4 Palestinians, most of whom are bystanders. I can give you many more comparisons of injustice the Palestinians face.

Interesting that once again you place all blame on Israel, when the Palestinians
themselves have many more reasons to vote for hamas and remove fatah:



"The two most important issues for the voters were corruption in the Palestinian Authority
--which is dominated by Fatah-- and the inability of the PA to enforce law and order. On both
counts Hamas posed a clear alternative--with its reputation for discipline and incorruptibility.
The third and fourth priorities were economic prosperity and the peace process."

"Knowing that polls showed that more than 85 percent of the public believed the PA was
corrupt and that more than 80 percent felt unsafe in their homes and neighborhoods,
perhaps the most brilliant achievement of Hamas in the weeks leading up to the elections
was to elevate the importance of these two issues to the top of public agenda."


[url=http://www.amin.org/eng/uncat/2006/jan/jan28-0.html:212cb]Article by Dr. Khalil Shikaki, director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research – Ramallah[/url:212cb]

[Pyro]

should cut ties with Israel too.

[Machette]

[quote="Eight Ace":7b01f]

Originally Posted by Machette

You don't think the Palestinian people elected Hamas because they were getting sick and tired of what Israel is doing to them? Do you think that it had something do with 1.3 Israelites die compared to 3.4 Palestinians, most of whom are bystanders. I can give you many more comparisons of injustice the Palestinians face.

Interesting that once again you place all blame on Israel, when the Palestinians
themselves have many more reasons to vote for hamas and remove fatah:



"The two most important issues for the voters were corruption in the Palestinian Authority
--which is dominated by Fatah-- and the inability of the PA to enforce law and order. On both
counts Hamas posed a clear alternative--with its reputation for discipline and incorruptibility.
The third and fourth priorities were economic prosperity and the peace process."

"Knowing that polls showed that more than 85 percent of the public believed the PA was
corrupt and that more than 80 percent felt unsafe in their homes and neighborhoods,
perhaps the most brilliant achievement of Hamas in the weeks leading up to the elections
was to elevate the importance of these two issues to the top of public agenda."


[url=http://www.amin.org/eng/uncat/2006/jan/jan28-0.html:7b01f]Article by Dr. Khalil Shikaki, director of the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research – Ramallah[/url:7b01f][/quote:7b01f]I was waiting for the "you forgot about Israel" argument. I know I did, Israel is a highly agressive state and I think most people overlook that. I also know that they elected Hamas because of the corruption issue with Fatah, I was just stating that some people felt that Hamas could possibly solve the whole peace deal and give them security.

All you have to do is look at how well America treats Israel. The jews have been in Israel for thousands of years and after the holocaust all the jews flooded into Israel, taking land from Arabs, who also lived there for thousands of years. The U.S then got involved, gave them military aid because neighbouring Arab states also got involved. Then over the years and many peace deals that went by, that could have resolved the whole issue but were not because America and Israel wanted no part in it. Israel has huge backing from the states. It is even noted that Sharon once said something like "Don't worry about the U.S they can't do anything, we control them" (I'm looking for the source, so I'll post it later) It's very easy to blame Israel as it's easy to blame the Arabs who resort to awful terrorism tactics. But both sides are reckless and that's what I want to point out instead of hearing only pro-Israel rhetoric. All you have to do is look at the statistics and draw your own conclusion.

[c312]

yeah, I think we need to treat israel more like we treat other countries, with less special treatment, but at the same time, I don't want them to be bullied out of having their own state by the surrounding muslim countries, so it's a hard thing to solve.

[Eight Ace]

Originally Posted by Machette

I was waiting for the "you forgot about Israel" argument. I know I did, Israel is a highly agressive state and I think most people overlook that. I also know that they elected Hamas because of the corruption issue with Fatah.

You said "the Palestinian people elected Hamas because they were getting sick and tired of what Israel is doing to them"

...you're talking about Israel, so why would anyone make a "you forgot about Israel" argument?

What I pointed out was not "only pro-Israel rhetoric", I was not referring to Israel, you hoewever
turn everything into anti Israel rhetoric. I was talking about the real reasons Hamas won the elections.



You say "If America gave more aid to Palestine", Palestinian voters say they've had 11 years
of fatah who can't be trusted with aid money, they are sick of Palestinian government corruption.

You also say hamas was elected because Palestinians are "getting sick and tired of what Israel is
doing to them", Palestinian voters say they feel unsafe in their homes and neighborhoods and
that fatah failed to enforce law and order. They aren't talking about Israel, they are talking
about rampant Palestinian on Palestinian crime, it only stands to reason that if internal
crime cannot be checked then the activities of terrorists can also not be stopped and
therefore attacks on Israel were not stopped, you let all this slip by...but when Israel
retaliates THEN you're sure whose at fault, and you always blame Israel.

Originally Posted by Machette

I was just stating that some people felt that Hamas could possibly solve the whole peace deal and give them security.

Perhaps they can, I hope so...because 11 years of ineffectual government that was totally useless
in controlling money, it's own people, or stopping terrorist attacks... and the election now of a terrorist
group that promises to change it's ways has presented uniquely Palestinian problems, and just
blaming Israel and America is bullshit.

[Machette]

I didn't blame America and Israel, I was merely showing another side to the argument. But if you think what America is doing in Israel is creating peace that's alright. You have your opinions, I have mine.

[Eight Ace]

If you think what the various factions are doing in Palestine is creating peace that's alright. You have your opinions, I have mine.
Also this is about Canadas cutting of aid to Palestine...not Americas.

[Machette]

Indeed..Harper has Canada set up for a new foreign policy.