[Quze]

Originally Posted by Arkan

Who gives a fuck....it's war.

Thats one thing i could never really understand.....rules of war. You're out there to win...fuck the rules! American journalism tries to make us out to be some kind of saviour......it's all bullshit. Give me weapons and set me free in Iraq and i'll do whatever it takes to win and come home alive. Rules? fuck you...i'm in it to win no matter what. Same applies to street fighting. Don't expect me not to gouge out your eye balls and kick you in the throat!

I agree. Do what it takes to win. Just like the guys in Iraq... car bombings, kidnappings, beheadings, fuck the rules!

...Just as long as they don't burn the bodies of the dead, it's all good.

[Stammer]

Yeah if by winning you mean in sensing the people your trying to win over and endangering soldiers in those cities, I don't call that winning.

Btw, according to most of you, it be a ok if they crucified an American soldier upside down, because I mean fuck rules and decency...it's war.

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by Colonel

Actually I was makng the comparison to our attitudes towards what it takes to win a war, and a comparison, to what I preceive anyway, is a lack of backbone in today's society. In my opinion we have become a country that suffers from ADD (one of the excuses we like to use with our youth). We can't finish anything that we start. In addition, we have become a country so concerned about being politically correct that we don't have the balls to do what it takes to win.

Most of the guys in this forum laughed at a story that was posted a while back about Gen Pershing killing Muslim terrorists and burying them with pig entrails (which never happened, btw). If this recent story really happened, why is it any different? Is it because we have pictures to relate to? Or maybe we just don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. You can argue about Iraq being an unjust war all you want. This happened in Afghanistan. I'm pretty sure that most of the guys in this forum agreed we had the right to go after Bin Laden and his bunch, who were in Afghanistan.

BTW - getting my head chopped off is against my religion. Do you think the terrorists are going to respect that belief when they capture me?

I never said Afgahnistan was unjust. I said it was an ill comparison...Which it is.

It's kinda funny the way you say your country has no backbone and doesn't finish what it starts. I'd agree with the second part. What's funny is that it's people like you who encourage and support your country to take on another task like Iraq when it hasn't even finished with it's other obligations. Then you go ahead and say that. Doesn't make sense.

You'd be suprised of the importance of Political Correctness when you're dealing with foreign policy. It works the same way as mass-media. The attitude of your government reflects the attitude of the people. With regards to Iraq, Forcing war down peoples throat makes you generally disliked, whether or not it's a 'just' action deep down inside. On the surface people see an aggresive action, with no tact, and a 'Fuck You' attitude. That simply breeds hatred, which in turn makes war....and then you've just got more and more obligations as the years go on.
IMO, people like you are too strung up about being Politically Correct that you seperate yourselves so far from it that you forget where it IS important and relevant.

As for hurting the "enemies" feelings. Yeah, maybe you're right - It is war, fuck their feelings. Just don't bitch when they send another bunch of pissed off suicide bombers to blow up something else in your country.

Times have changed. This is the era of the terrorist. That's why comparing any of this too WW2 is just silly.

[Colonel]

Originally Posted by Tripper

I never said Afgahnistan was unjust. I said it was an ill comparison...Which it is.

As i said, I wasn't comparing wars but the attitude about winning them. What do you think we would do to one of our Generals today if he said the stuff that Patton said? I doubt he would be in his job very long.

Originally Posted by Tripper

It's kinda funny the way you say your country has no backbone and doesn't finish what it starts. I'd agree with the second part. What's funny is that it's people like you who encourage and support your country to take on another task like Iraq when it hasn't even finished with it's other obligations. Then you go ahead and say that. Doesn't make sense.

it makes sense when you believe, like I do, that they are the same conflict, just different fronts.

Originally Posted by Tripper

...That simply breeds hatred, which in turn makes war....and then you've just got more and more obligations as the years go on..

Funny how they hated us enough to bomb us before we took on Iraq, before we took on Afghanistan, even before we fought WWII. Nothing we do now can possibly make them hate us any more. I would hope that we would always conduct ourselves by a standard that is higher than that of the scum that we are fighting, that's why I doubt the report that started this thread is 100% accurate, But I also think that as a country we have a growing faction that will oppose anything that we do (even if we were fighting Hitler again) and will always find fault and take pleasure in pointing the finger of blame at our boys when something like this comes out.

[Nyck]

Those fucks are over there decapitating innocent people and flying planes loaded with innocent civillians into our buildings and incinerating them.

serves them right. eye for an eye, Allah ackbar mothafugga

[Jin-Roh]

Originally Posted by Nyck

Those fucks are over there decapitating innocent people and flying planes loaded with innocent civillians into our buildings and incinerating them.

serves them right. eye for an eye, Allah ackbar mothafugga

A somewhat good point. ed:

[Colonel]

Here's another article:

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 39,00.html

[rdeyes]

the afghani people dont like it when pakis come over and create trouble in afghanistan, a majority of the taliban were paki's.

(Quote " Earlier, Lt. Eric Nelson, the leader of B Company, I-508 platoon leader had sent word down to Gonbaz asking the villagers to pick up the bodies and bury them according to Muslim ritual. But the villagers refused — probably because the dead fighters weren't locals but Pakistanis, surmised one U.S. army officer. " )

[newt.]

fuck them, fuck the taliban, we need to elect a dead president, and cut off every terrorists head on live TV, and americans must love it

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by Colonel

As i said, I wasn't comparing wars but the attitude about winning them. What do you think we would do to one of our Generals today if he said the stuff that Patton said? I doubt he would be in his job very long.

Do you understand WHY the attitude about "winning" this war is different? It's because it's not a conventional war. There is no way of "winning" in sight. The only real way to win is to kill all the terrorists.....The thing is, terrorists breed terrorists. That's why a "fuck you" attitude to these kinds of conflicts DOES NOT work. It actually works against you by breeding hatred, which in turn fuels fire and creates more reasons for these terrorists to blow themselves up in order to take out a few Americans. Eliminating Political Correctness just speeds up the terrorist-breeding process and makes the enemy stronger because they have more of a reason to hate.

It's a war, like Vietnam, that potentially could run for decades. Like I said, this is a new era. This is era of the Terrorist, and the insurgent.

Wars like this will always have public outcry for the same reasons....I shouldn't have to explain to you why, because I'm pretty sure you're not that stupid.

it makes sense when you believe, like I do, that they are the same conflict, just different fronts.

The front is just going to get bigger and bigger. Look now at what's happening with Iran and Syria. Soon you're going to reach a point where the majority of the middle east is entirely Anti-American. All these people see is Americans coming into their holy land and fucking with it. It's like the crusades to them. They look at it as Christians vs Muslims, especially when you have George Bush going on about how God is telling him to do this.

America may currently be the biggest super-power in the world, but they can't occupy and maintain the entire middle-east. It's just getting worse and worse. Stuff like this is fuel on the fire.

Funny how they hated us enough to bomb us before we took on Iraq, before we took on Afghanistan, even before we fought WWII. Nothing we do now can possibly make them hate us any more. I would hope that we would always conduct ourselves by a standard that is higher than that of the scum that we are fighting, that's why I doubt the report that started this thread is 100% accurate, But I also think that as a country we have a growing faction that will oppose anything that we do (even if we were fighting Hitler again) and will always find fault and take pleasure in pointing the finger of blame at our boys when something like this comes out.

I think you're wrong here. There hasn't been a war like WW2 against an enemy like Hitler to know if the public outcry would still be the same as it currently is.....You're right to a degree about some people always pointing the blame no matter how just the war is, but right now, in this case, it is very bad. Never has it been as bad for the U.S....It may as well be a religious war (Like I said, it is to alot of these Muslims), and when religion comes into play, you find people have nothing to lose....and when people have nothing to lose....Well.....

[Arkan]

This is why i don't like politics. It always causes rifts amoungst the closest of friends (and don't you fuckers believe i love ya's.....it's a fuckin' example)

Anywho, i'm in agreement with Colonel (like THATS a suprise). This lil' "burning of the bodies" is psychological warfare. The terrorists did it with 9/11, the burning of the bodies on the bridge, the dragging of the American soldier through Afghanistan, the showing of American soldiers who were shot in the head, and the countless live beheadings. While it may be "against" the rules, it's psychological warfare none the less. And, for the theory that we may get the terrorists more mad at us, who gives a flying fuck. We're at war and i can't get any more mad or feel any more hatred for them after what they did to us on that fateful September day in my home city. Fuck them, fuck their cause, fuck their feelings, and fuck the camel they rode in on.

[Colonel]

I don't think this war being "different" has anything to do with it. The attitudes in this country about winning anything have changed. Heck, in some schools we don't even give grades anymore because it would be bad for one kid to realize he wasn't has smart as the next kid. In a soccer league I coached in, they wouldn't keep score because they didn't want the little fellas to bad if they lost. The wussification of the country has nothing to do with this war.

I understand your thinking about the lack of political correctness breeding more terrorists. I just don't agree with it. I think the opposite is true because what you are proposing is appeasement and I think that's what got us here to start with. There are alot of experts that think Bin Laden was emboldened to attack the Trade Centers, the Pentagon and the White House because he had gotten off so easy in the past. He didn't expect us to actually come after him even if he attacked us so boldly. The fact of the matter is that we have been pouring aid into these countries, bending over backwards to appease them and basically letting them get away with their hate-filled terrorism for so many years that they figured they could take it to the next level. So, political correctness, in my opinion, caused the problem. It is not the solution.

[Tripper]

Originally Posted by Colonel

I understand your thinking about the lack of political correctness breeding more terrorists. I just don't agree with it. I think the opposite is true because what you are proposing is appeasement and I think that's what got us here to start with. There are alot of experts that think Bin Laden was emboldened to attack the Trade Centers, the Pentagon and the White House because he had gotten off so easy in the past. He didn't expect us to actually come after him even if he attacked us so boldly. The fact of the matter is that we have been pouring aid into these countries, bending over backwards to appease them and basically letting them get away with their hate-filled terrorism for so many years that they figured they could take it to the next level. So, political correctness, in my opinion, caused the problem. It is not the solution.

Neither is the 'screw you' attitude. My point is it is making the situation worse. There will always be terrorism, you can't control that. What you can control is the severity of the situation. You have two options, some terrorists....Or LOTS of terrorists.

The way it's heading now is the second option.

...Basically what you're telling me is because there is no solution, the only option is to make the situation worse, just so you can show them 'who's boss.' The reality is, it's not showing them who's boss.

It's exactly like a hornet's nest. You get stung a couple of times, so you decide the best way to deal with it, is to get closer to it and fuck with it some more.

I'm not saying you should give a shit about them or their feelings, I'm saying in order to keep your country safe and your families safer, the best option is to just avoid them. There is a reason why they're pissed at the U.S and not at other countries. It's not as if you guys hadn't done something to piss them off.

It sounds bad, but the reality is appeasement is the safest option.

[Colonel]

Originally Posted by Tripper

It sounds bad, but the reality is appeasement is the safest option.

That's what the French said about the Germans when Hilter invaded Poland. It's also what many Americans said (and did) during the eight years prior to 9-11. As long as the US is friendly with Israel nothing we do will be appease them enough.

Originally Posted by Tripper

What you can control is the severity of the situation. You have two options, some terrorists....Or LOTS of terrorists.

I would say that giving the terrorists the sense of security that allows them to think they can fly a couple of planes into the World Trade Center is not controlling the situation but adding to the severity of it.

Originally Posted by Tripper

It's exactly like a hornet's nest. You get stung a couple of times, so you decide the best way to deal with it, is to get closer to it and fuck with it some more.

You're right. Only the hornets nest was stired up a couple of thousand years ago and we have the choice now of standing here and being stung repeatedly or spraying the hive with the wasp spray we are holding.

Originally Posted by Tripper

I'm saying in order to keep your country safe and your families safer, the best option is to just avoid them.

Again, history proves that that statement is not accurate. Even if we did completely pull out of every muslim country in the world they would continue their terrorist activities.

Originally Posted by Tripper

There is a reason why they're pissed at the U.S and not at other countries. It's not as if you guys hadn't done something to piss them off.

Actually they have carried out terrorist activities in a large number of countries. (both before and after 9-11) They pretty much hate anybody that does not follow whatever muslim sect they belong to.

[KTOG]

Lets dig up gravesites, piss on the bodies and bury them upside down.